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170

Dell: don't restrict teenagers from site participation!

170 points posted to Dell Community, IdeaStorm by phubert Apr 3

Apparently a participant in the StormRoom is having access removed because of Dell's "Terms and Conditions" specifying an AGE LIMIT.

Is this helpful? Constructive?

What do IdeaStormer's think?

If there must be an age limit, what should it be?

jervis961
Apr 3		 There is no way they can prove a person's age here so they cannot ban people based on that criteria. Even if someone says they are a minor they must remember that many people are deceptive on the internet.
phubert
Apr 3		 Well, I wonder about that argument, jervis. I mean, if someone IS being deceptive, couldn't _that_ be a reason to ban them also?

Still, I would think _behavior_ should be the primary criterion.
jervis961
Apr 3		 Deception on a person's age doesn't really matter here. Dell obviously didn't care enough to even ask how old you are when you joined. They don't use age to weigh the votes we make or the ideas we submit so why do they suddenly care? I think it is more because a minor cannot enter into a legal contract and therefore Dell doesn't get their idea for free or $1000 if they need to buy it.
leolonewolf_nw08
Apr 3		 If Dell insists on enforcing a minimum age limit then I say let it be around 14 or 15. If they decide not to allow the change to a lower age limit and someone underage deceptively joins and Dell uses their idea then the poster would be at fault for breaking the terms and condidtions and could likely forfeit any and all rights to whatever ideas they post. I have no qualms about someone posting an idea so long as they aren't acting or being disruptive. I would say being "childish" but I know to many adults that act that way on forums regardless of their age.

Overall it's a legal headache that I'm glad I'm not working on.
phubert
Apr 3		 yes, the legal headache is the one qualifier I was thinking of, but I can't really see how it need apply to IdeaStorm or the StormRoom...
jdelidc
Apr 3		 15
dawn_l
Apr 3		 All- The age criteria is clearly outlined in our terms and was something we considered carefully when launching the site. The decision was made based on the process for use of ideas and the need to a submitter to be 18 and be able to make decisions about the rights to their idea. Agreed we have no way to know someone's age unless they tell us. Once they do, we have to remove them. Would love to have a chat about this with anyone who still has concerns. Let me know where to call you via the contact a moderator link at the top.

Thanks,
Dawn
phubert
Apr 3		 Well, Dawn, the existence of legal considerations is something I had assumed, without having read all the Terms & Conditions.

However, since when have submitters HAD any 'rights to their ideas' here?

There has been discussion about 'rewwards' for participants, but I've never heard that it went anywhere. And, THAT sounded to me to be ENTIRELY discretionary on the part of Dell.
leolonewolf_nw08
Apr 3		 That brings about a whole new discussion on what kind of "Rewards" Dell does offer for implemented ideas. I'm somewhat curious about that myself.
phubert
Apr 3		 My assumption was: none. I thought most of us had no such expectations to begin with.
sugarbear
Apr 3		 There is an easy way around the legal ramifications. If a young person happened to have an idea Dell wanted to implement, Dell would contact the person via email for a phone number. Then a time could be arranged for a phone call with the guardians. Paperwork could be mailed that would need to be notorized, picture ID`s included and a signed waiver by the guardians allowing the minor to receive the money. Another option is to take advantage of the 3rd party on site tech people. Send them on a service call that is strictly to get the documentation and verification in person, to send to Dell.
leolonewolf_nw08
Apr 3		 That was my assumption as well, but wishful thinking is what ideas are made of right? LOL
leolonewolf_nw08
Apr 3		 I wouldn't neccessarily send a tech to handle legal details though. I think a local attorney could be hired by Dell to facilitate the "transaction" so to speak.
sugarbear
Apr 3		 Good ideas on the attorney leolonewolf_nw08.
jmxz
Apr 3		 I wonder if the age of having legal rights to ones ideas is universally 18 in all the countries of IdeaStorm contributors.
I notice a pretty large international presence here. Perhaps in other countries people gain such rights earlier or later?
Maybe the restrictions should be on a country-by-country basis.
winoffice
Apr 4		 CNet allows persons aged 13 and over, why not Dell? Certainly Dell can allow persons aged 13 and older, if CNet can do it?
phubert
Apr 4		 Dell needs a disclaimer, then, jmxz. "All submissions are property of Dell U.S.A. Corporation" ... or something to that effect...
jervis961
Apr 4		 Perhaps don't let them post ideas? They can vote and comment on other ideas but if they cannot post an idea there should be no legal issues. Lets face it I think the site has just about every imaginable idea covered at this time. If they do find they have a unique idea to offer they can have their parents submit it for them.
dawn_l
Apr 4		 All- Take a peek at the terms at the top of the page again. I know for many of you it has been over a year since you originally signed in… there are details on the rights to use of ideas as well as the rights for purchase an idea. Hope this clarifies.
-D
jervis961
Apr 4		 I was clear on them. While you are giving feedback, has anyone ever had Dell "compensate" them for an idea posted here?
jervis961
Apr 6		 Welcome to the site but be careful as once you start to participate it gets addictive and your work and education may suffer. While you are posting on Dell's sites why not add a comment to the following Direct2Dell post about including people regardless of "race, religion, culture, ethnicity, gender, geography, nationalities, abilities, and sexual orientation". A couple of us have posted that strangely they left age out of the list.

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/04/04/remembering-a-pioneer-of-in...
winoffice
Apr 16		 Merged Idea originally posted Apr 16
Stop throwing out 13-17 year olds

CNet (at least in the United States) allows everone aged 13 or older; why not Dell? Won't Dell need feedback from children? They're the future generation of Dell users after all. So stop throwing out 13-17 year olds (inclusively) and start accepting them into IdeaStorm. Could you at least tell us why you have such a policy??
jackie_c
Apr 16		 As Dawn mentioned above, "The decision was made based on the process for use of ideas and the need to a submitter to be 18 and be able to make decisions about the rights to their idea." This was reviewed thoroughly by Dell. The age to participate on IdeaStorm is 18 and other Dell Community properties is 13.
jmxz
Apr 16		 @jackie_c: "and the need to a submitter to be 18 and be able to make decisions about the rights to their idea"

Certainly that's a country-by-country restriction, no?
phubert
Apr 17		 The _necessity_ for it would be based on local law, but trying to address the variations IN law could make the process too convoluted for Dell to _reasonably_ address it.

However, I'll ask Jackie & Co. the following (out of my own ignorance, plainly):

Can 'underage' individuals participate at IdeaStorm by voting and commenting but just not by submitting ideas, then?
jackie_c
Apr 17		 @phubert: To participate on IdeaStorm, which means submitting ideas, commenting or voting, one must be 18 years old.
phubert
Apr 17		 O.K. Someone commented somewhere about 'limited' participation... everything _but_ idea submission.

If the site had user profiles (suggested elsewhere, I believe), that might be possible...
jmxz
Apr 17		 @phubert: "but trying to address the variations IN law"

That's why I like Google's terms of use better - which says something like "you can only use this service if you're legally able to enter with a contract with Google".

That not only addresses the age variations - but also any other issues that might trigger the legal issues regarding Idea Ownership that Dell seems worried about (I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing someone might not be legally allowed to transfer their IP to Dell if they're insane, or retarded, or someone's slave (in countries where that happens)).
phubert
Apr 21		 Allow underage participants with parents' permission?
Have parent enter THEIR email address for confirmation???

Co-registration, sponsored registration?
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