Dell must cut ties to Scientology

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Dell must cut ties to Scientology

580 points posted to Advertising and Marketing, Dell by dakkona Feb 7

A video has recently been leaked from the 2006-2007 Church of Scientology New Year's gathering, where their leader, David Miscavige, lauds a campaign to spread Scientology and lead an operation to "OBLITERATE" psychiatry. And he PRAISES DELL for AIDING them in distributing a booklet of theirs called "The Way to Happiness" all over Africa!

See http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U (Dell is mentioned about 8 minutes in)

Dell, if this association with the so-called Church of Scientology continues, IT MUST END. While the beliefs of individual scientologists are not a problem, the leadership is corrupt, members have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to progress, and their tactics in dealing with critics and those who try to leave the organization are despicable. But that isn't all. Visit http://www.xenu.net and http://www.whyaretheydead.net for information.

Regardless of what one thinks of Scientology though, it is NOT Dell's place to aid the spread of a particular belief system or campaign.

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mkmaster78 Feb 7	Unfortunately, as much as I despise scientology, Dell is a privately owned company and may support whatever organization its owners choose, so I have to demote this idea.
dakkona Feb 7	Dell is a public corporation, not a private company. Anyway, if you mantain your position, no idea posted on this site should ever be voted up, because "dell is a company and can do whatever it wants."
tomcruisethetan Feb 7	I am an IT Manager for multiple companies, and I have EXCLUSIVELY bought Dell equipment for all of my clients for over 10 years. I have also recommended DELL to hundreds of people in that time. This makes me sad. I will be switching to HP as my exclusive source for the future. Oh yeah, ALL HAIL XENU! See more about the evils of Scientology: www.xenu.net www.whyaretheydead.net
mkmaster78 Feb 7	@dakkona 1) Dell publically traded, but privately owned corporation (meaning its ownership may be publically traded around, but is always held by private owners.) and as such may express whatever beliefs they choose. 2) this is different than a normal idea, most ideas here are for improvements in product, marketing, etc. They do not involve a change in Dell's (or more correctly its owners) personal beliefs and support of particular belief systems.
dakkona Feb 7	@mkmaster78. It's also possible that Dell (or whoever made the decision for the Africa segment) is not aware that this booklet is from Scientology, or is aware of the causes that the organization is pushing.
mkmaster78 Feb 7	@dakkona The claims made by scientology that Dell is helping them may be false as well. However, due to the nature of the idea itself, i still have to demote it, sorry. I despise scientology with every quark and gluon in my body, but i cannot promote an idea that tell someone else not to support something they may believe in (mostly in a religous manner). These beliefs are up to an individual, right or wrong as they may be. I personally am an athiest, but I don't want to tell Dell not to support Christianity (which I believe is nearly as dangerous a cult as Scientology, though in a different way) because I don't try and force personal beliefs.
chuckylarms Feb 7	While Dell owners can do/believe what they wish, they should make it public knowledge so that the investors who oppose scientology can know where their money is being used. This a big issue, and it is important that people who buy these products be made aware of what they are indirectly supporting. People have a right to sell their stock. People have a right to know how their investments are being used. Promoted Up,
mkmaster78 Feb 7	@chuckylarms: I support making it public knowledge, but this is not what this idea is about
matt_britt Feb 7	mkmaster78: Dell is a privately owned company? Go to Nasdaq.com, type in Dell in the symbol search, and tell me what you see.
mkmaster78 Feb 7	@matt_britt: read my previous explanation about this.
anonymouse95 Feb 7	I use Dell computers a lot, but if they don't distance themselves from Scientology then that might change. For those of you who defend Dell I'll just point something out: If this is upmodded and Dell takes care of it, then that's good for Dell. If on the other hand its downmodded, and/or ignored, then this situation just might trigger a boycott. I'm just saying.
little_bear_victor Feb 7	Scientology management uses almost entirely Dell computers, they get a good deal on them. I don't think they deserve it.
tomcruisethetan Feb 7	mkmaster78 - As a customer of any company, I have every right to ask that company to support or to withdraw support from other organizations. This is what WE call Freedom. Also, I wonder what happened to the last comment I posted here? Censorship?
norgler Feb 7	Whoever said "it is NOT Dell's place to aid the spread of a particular belief system or campaign" doesn't understand the first thing about a free-market democracy. Wal-Mart actively funds conservative Christian fundamentalist wackos. So does Chick-Fil-A. So does Domino's Pizza. So do plenty of other corporations. People can support whatever loony causes they choose in a free country, and yes, they can use the clout of their companies to help do it. Welcome to America. Boycotting Dell over this would be stupid and self defeating. They can fund the Moonies for all I care - it's their money! And to even suggest that Dell might be pro-Scientology because of the "Way to Happiness" deal is way beyond naive. It's just business. That's all.
david_f Feb 7	I manage Dell’s corporate affairs team, and want to thank you for bringing this video to our attention. We're looking into this video’s extremely vague reference to Dell, but I can tell you that it is not our business practice to disseminate religious materials.
tomcruisethetan Feb 7	Thank you for your response to this, david_f. I certainly hope that Dell can correct this misinformation. I and many other Dell customers are looking forward to hearing an official statement soon.
anoninspiron Feb 7	david_f: I too appreciate this, because as of right now, I feel that by associating Dell with Scientology, Dell disassociates with me, which I deeply regret as I have enjoyed my Dell so far.
jervis961 Feb 7	What a wacky speach that was. I just don't believe Dell is pushing Scientology and would need a little more proof that some wacko claiming it is true. I have no problem with Dell doing business with anyone as long as it is not illegal. Just as your freedom allows you to complain about the possiblity, it also allows Dell to do business with them.
jervis961 Feb 7	I also find it interesting that most of the commenters on this idea have only voted and commented on this one idea.
anonymouse95 Feb 7	I'm glad to hear it! I was thinking/hoping that this was all a bit of exaggeration on the part of the Co$, still I'd appreciate an official explanation / disavowal from Dell. Even so I'm glad to see that you're dealing with it! I also love my Dell.
zanlok Feb 7	@jervis - Yes, there is definitely something afoot. That hasn't happened on any other ideas. None of the regular posters commented in between, either. Just a bunch of random newbies suddenly jump on and go straight for this post?! @DELL: admins/mods, please investigate the IPs of these people!
jervis961 Feb 7	Exactly my thought zanlok.
tamphex Feb 7	It would quite definitely be in Dells best business interests to follow up on this information.
zanlok Feb 7	Why are these people mysteriously headed straight for this stupid post? Who cares, anyways. Let the religious people do their thing. Dell isn't publicly doing anything. What people from Dell do is their own business.
zanlok Feb 7	<< a Christian << a computer scientist but I am NOT one of these Scientologyp eople or anything. I just don't see why you can't leave each other alone.
newnoncustomer Feb 7	Nobody is ordering Dell to disassociate itself. Free markets, free countries, free trade. I am responding to the existing association between Dell and CoS, and making the market consequences thereof perfectly clear. Isn't that why the forum is here? Customer feedback and ideas? When Dell disassociates itself publicly, formally, and completely from the Church of Scientology, I'll consider their products again. Longtime IdeaStorm users are right that I'm here this one purpose. I have never felt so strongly about a computer idea as to post it. I have, however, purchased Dell products, and regret having any association with a company which has any association with CoS. If Dell's profit margins are so wide that it can afford to walk away from consumers, do it. There are plenty of competitors out there, and they will be strengthened by Dell's controversy.
zanlok Feb 7	First off, you again with your ONE vote and your ONE comment - what a joke. Secondly, I wasn't saying you can't make a free market decision not to buy Dell. I totally agree. I wouldn't buy anything from a company I thought was satanist or something, so I understand. So, thirdly, my response was to the whole idea that Dell "must" abandon any association. I doubt there is a tie anyways, so this whole discussion is moot. To me (and probably Jervis since he pointer it out) the only REAL issue here is one random freak spamming IdeaStorm with multiple accounts.
anonymouse95 Feb 7	@zanlok - Sorry to disappoint you, but we're not sock puppets, as an IP check will reveal. However there is something afoot, and that is the massive world wide demonstrations against Scientology on February 10. The CoS is not a very popular group as is, and their reputation is only going to get worse as more and more people learn the truth. So when someone uncovered this video where David Miscavige (head of the Church of Scientology) claiming that they're working closely with Dell, well you can fill in the blanks yourself. A lot of people get upset, some called for an immediate boycott, others arranged letter writing campaigns, and some came to the Dell forums to express their concern. A lot of us use Dell machines (like me, I got three myselves, and I've bought some for my family and friends), and we'd like to be able to continue using them without feeling guilty. Mind you so far I'm quite happy about Dell's response, I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly david_f stepped in, so I hope this whole mess can be cleared up in a hurry.
zanlok Feb 7	mousey - how would you know, exactly? you don't know any more than I do about what users may or may not be from a particular IP. unless you are responsible for it and using measures to cover your tracks. then you might know. other than that, all I was saying is that I side with jervis. let Dell investigate both issues.
zanlok Feb 7	p.s. Why in the heck would you be calling something by a crazy acronym "CoS" unless you're really just some kind or an activist?
tomcruisethetan Feb 7	I have spent many dollars buying DELL computers, servers, laptops. I have every right to ask DELL to look into this matter. I care deeply about the people who are being used and abused by the Church of Scientology, and I will not knowingly contribute to the furthering of Human Suffering. Why did Lisa McPherson have to die?
ladyanon Feb 7	I will no longer purchase your products. When I go out to buy my new pc at the end of the month, you will not get my business. I will make it a point to tell other about your ties with this cult. When I go to buy my computer, I will inform the people in the store about your ties.
tomcruisethetan Feb 7	If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck... "I'm not a Scientologist, but...." That's a Duck!
kilia Feb 7	Many thanks david_f , for your input. Being tied to the Church of Scientology in ANY way is not good, not good at all for business.
anonymouse95 Feb 7	@ladyanon - Relax, I'm sure that this is just the Scientologists falsely claiming an endorsement. Given david_f's statements I'm now fairly sure that the Church of Scientology was falsely claiming an endorsement. However the rumour is already out there, so a public statement on DELLs part would help a lot.
happysmileman Feb 7	The reason so many people are signing up just to vote on this one idea is that the link is being posted in many forums, websites and chatrooms associated with the protests that will take place this Sunday. I don't see a problem with that, and if you like, you're free to get people to downvote it as well, if they agree with you, they'll help downvote it. All we've done is spread the link to people we think would want Dell to stop this association (if it really exists, I haven't seen much evidence).
cyberchrist Feb 7	I work in the tech sector and have suggested that my client use Dell PowerEdge etc servers. If this link is not spurious, then I will certainly not make such suggestions in the future. ww.xenu.net = the truth
jorge Feb 7	What? Dell isn't into Scientology? Didn't Tommy Cruise use a Dell laptop in the last MI:3? Thats association by that alone.
jorge Feb 7	Forgot, zanlok, somebody learned what TOR is.
jervis961 Feb 7	So how did you all know to show to IdeaStorm on the same day? I also like how you all are taking an 8 minute video on youtube that is from over a year ago as gospel (pardon the pun). I thought the American thing was innocent until PROVEN guilty and not the other way around. You all are acting like a bunch of zeolots. Oh and you are trying to order Dell around and trust me we have tried and they don't really follow orders well.
jamest Feb 7	I am posting this comment from my Dell PC, having found this site from a forum thread. Up to now, I have liked Dell. I sincerely hope that the alleged ties between Dell and Scientology are false, because I could not in good conscience buy from a company that actively promotes Scientology. Having ties with Scientology is like having ties with the mafia - they really are that bad.
desertrain Feb 7	I hope Dell does check into this. I would like to hear back from them. They might not have known the connection to Scientology. Their answer will influence my next computer purchase if they are supporting the Cult of Scientology.
newnoncustomer Feb 7	Hi, regular ideastorm users. Sorry so many descended like this. I understand if you're irritated. Had you spent the last few weeks, or years, or decades following and researching the vile acts committed by the Church of Scientology, you would understand. I don't ask that you take the word of anyone without examination. Look into it. Google Scientology and follow links such as xenu.net. or many others. You'll see why it matters. An organized protest was already in place for 2.10.08 to publicize CoS crimes, including what many perceive as negligent homicide, most certain government infiltration, fraud, and rampant abuse of the legal system. This group is deeper than anyone knows, even extending their cult into schools, the medical profession, lobbying -- none of which is appropriate for a tax-exempt "religion." Hearing CoS brag about its corporate connections created outrage. And its boasts about interfering with medical research and medication availability for the world created fury. CoS must be stopped, and if collective consumer voices make a difference, so be it. (I'm no spammer -- am simply making an individual statement with which many happen to agree.) Dell, you're on notice with this customer, and I eagerly await an appropriate public announcement.
sugarbear Feb 7	I know every thing I need to know about scientology. No thank you. I don`t think Dell would knowingly do anything but sell them computers, or any one else that wants to buy them. Any one can make a pamphlet and put Dell on it. At, least until they get caught.
zanlok Feb 7	Great pun, Jervis. These people really are coming out of the woodwork, aren't they. Which is fine, but the coincidence is quite intriguing. I like the chucklehead calling me one. Haha. How little you know, tommy pretender. I may be new here, but at least I have a -little- history and street cred. Most of your aliases are at a 0 believability factor. They're all crazed about this one reference. Hey, I wouldn't like it so much either, if it were true. But, give it time. The media would be having a field day with this if there were any reliable sources...
jervis961 Feb 8	Actually since the video is about how scientology is defending the world from the evils of psychiatry are these all psychiatric patients? Just kidding, I know better. I too am against Scientology but I am also against going overboard based on a video such as this. I watched the whole 8:11 of the video and didn't understand half of his Scientology terms. I can't believe so many people get sucked into this religion formed by the warped mind that brought us Star Trek and based on aliens or whatever they believe in. Who knows, maybe Dell was suckered into helping distribute a book that they didn't understand was scientology. Not all companies run things up the chain to the main office and maybe that is what happened. They didn't say if it was their main book or the one by the celebrity they mentioned as well. It was hard to understand all his double speak and jargin so maybe he was giving examples of how they COULD help and not what actually happened?
phubert Feb 8	If the allegation in this submission were true, I'd second it. But I couldn't vote FOR it without knowing 'the facts, ma'am' ... didn't sound at all likely, tho...
phubert Feb 8	I don't blame anyone for attacking 'the evils of psychiatry' ... only I've known ONE poor, deluded Scientologist, and his experience (remaining deluded out of over $17 grand by the late 70's and believing he had been made a genius having had his 'engrams' removed) was enough to tell me Scientology could lay no claim to any comprehension OF psychiatry, while demonstrating it had all the skills of a good carnival barker or run-of-the-mill con artist.
jervis961 Feb 8	Of course they are against psychiatry as all thier members might realize how crazy the religion is. ;D
sortasordid12 Feb 8	I too am a newbie, but I saw the David Miscavige video and I was going to write Dell about this topic, but discovered there already was one. I personally am an ex-scientologist. I was raised inside the cult and experienced horrible abuse during my upbringing there. I'm certainly not one to tell ANYONE what they must or must not do with their money, and I wouldn't presume to demand that Dell stops affiliating with the cult, but as a consumer-driven enterprise, I'm sure they must be concerned about PR. It certainly sounds from the video as if David Miscavige is claiming false association with Dell, but frankly, Scientology has destroyed my family, and if it were true that Dell was in any way in bed with Scientology managment, I would never buy another Dell product again. Shame, because I rather like Dell! I would be more than happy to discuss my issues with Scientology with anyone from Dell if they'd like to confirm the authenticity of my statement. Thank you, david_f, for your attention to this matter.
badblood Feb 8	sssssufferin' succatash! that's a weird video....
phubert Feb 8	I'm afraid I wouldn't bother to view anything that 'church' produced... sortasordid12's brief account is the best kind of information we could have... as is, I believe, my observation of that one former co-worker back in the 70's. SO much that can be said about the cult... and cult it is. As to telling Dell (or anyone) that you -won't- patronize anyone you know is so affiliated... THAT part is entirely appropriate. Doesn't sound to me as though Dell is in any way involved... I certainly hope not.
phubert Feb 8	But, sortasordid12, couldn't you use a more positive moniker??? I'm sure that doesn't apply to YOU!
jervis961 Feb 8	I didn't enjoy viewing the video phubert (not that you would suggest any of us would) but I find in order to truelly understand the idea I had to see it for myself. I find the video is more of a damnation of the church than the idea is.
phubert Feb 8	Oh, I agree jervis... but that's where I was being selfish... I LET others do it for me!!
phubert Feb 8	This isn't the first issue to hit IdeaStorm putting Dell in a bad light .. wrongly. And, Dell responded to the last one swiftly.
jervis961 Feb 8	I don't know which is weirder the Scientology video or that one badblood.
jervis961 Feb 8	OMG!!! I just found a video on youtube about this from Osama Bin Laden. I didn't save the link so I cannot post it here. In the video he speaks about how he ordered a new XPS M1330 with Linux since it was easily portable for the terrorist on the run and doesn't support the capitolist monopoly of Microsoft. He said he visits IdeaStorm regularly for new ideas and when he saw this thread he was outraged. He now wants to cancel his order and refuses to do business with Dell until they stop supporting extreamist religious groups that brainwash its followers like Scientology.
lj Feb 8	Long time Dell Premier customer with a Fortune 500 corporation. I am feeling uneasy about this potential link. Of course it could be some marketing department's mistake not realizing the connection. Until I get some resolution I'm holding off on any future purchases with Dell and leaning towards other vendors.
jorge Feb 8	@jervis961: You video was the best one, luckily I got to see it. It must be true that they are affiliated, due to the current situation. I wonder how long till we get Dyanetics with each purchase?
touretzky Feb 8	I'm a long-time Scientology critic. The cult has fair-gamed both me and my university (Carnegie Mellon). What most likely happened here is that some low-level Dell staffer in a remote location, who is either clueless or a cult member, got conned into giving out a few copes of The Way to Happiness without checking first with management. The cult then turned this into a story of broad, official support from Dell. This kind of lieing is standard for Scientology. Dell should investigate, explain what happened, and publicly distance themselves from this despicable group. I'm sure Dell will act responsibly, but let's see. That new Optiplex server I was going to order can wait a few days.
zanlok Feb 8	Do they really qualify as a cult? I doubt it. Crazies with crazy ideas, sure. << still waiting for a response from Dell Despite touetzky being one more lemming single-poster, his point about the probable source of the claim sounds like the only plausible root cause of all of this ruckus.
zanlok Feb 8	@newnoncustomer: Everyone is willing to believe the evidence discrediting this so-called church which is just a glorified pile of nonsense and moneygrubbers. What we don't necessarily swallow right off is that Dell is involved with them. And I personally don't believe that many people care much one way or another. Like one of the things that video from Jervis points out, there are SOOO many Hollywood types involved with this nonsense; funding it and keeping it going. Death to psychiatry is so silly. If you really are legion, then go after the problem, not some thin threaded connection to this wackiness. Go back in your hole and stay out of this zone... We want this to be a contructive platform for technology ideas that could keep Dell as #1.
zanlok Feb 8	The TRUTH is on that xenu.net site, huh? Is anyone supposed to take seriously a site titled Operation Clambake ?!
mkmaster78 Feb 8	@zanlok: Thats what the edit button is for :P
zanlok Feb 8	Well, yes and no. I did it on purpouse. But to illustrate the point. As I'm sure is understood.
phubert Feb 8	Well, whether or not they are a cult, I suppose, IS debatable. They are either a cult OR one of the greatest scams the earth has seen. The latter is entirely plausible.
jorge Feb 8	They're all scams, name one that doesn't require you to pony up cash. Then in an emergency its who to the rescue, Red Cross...
tomcruisethetan Feb 8	Touretzky!?!?! Thanks for posting! "You critics are about as wacky as the Scientologists themselves." - translation: "Quack" (This is a well known $cieno tactic. See duck analogy.) Again, I say, I have every right to communicate my displeasure with the DELL company. As does every other individueal who has posted here. As for being legion, and going after the problem... This is how we do it, through FREEDOM OF INFORMATION - if you are really a Computer Scientist, you should understand that. But you seem to wish to stifle discussion. How does this discussion harm you?
phubert Feb 8	we're stifling?? well, I've not been reading every comment... (we have TIME?????????)
tomcruisethetan Feb 8	Not you phubert, you seem OK. I'm trying to avoid personal attacks here, but I am referring to those who are oh-so-sublty suggesting that this is not a legitimate concern. I understand that those who are regulars here are a little befuddled and amused by this topic. I can only say again that we newbies are chiming in on this topic out of a REAL CONCERN for PEOPLES LIVES. And yes, the truth about how the Corp of Scientology has destroyed peoples lives can be found on www.xenu.net funny name and all. Here you can read about how Dell used Co$ "Tech" to train workers in Ireland: http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/wir7-09.html
david_f Feb 8	We've checked into this and have found no evidence that the assertion is accurate. Again, it's not our practice to disseminate religious materials. And, we have no affiliation with the Church of Scientology. Thanks again for bringing it to our attention. We always appreciate both regulars and newbies expressing their views on IdeaStorm.
anonymouse95 Feb 8	@ david_f I'm glad to hear that, suddenly I feel very relieved. I heard you were going to post a statement on your website, and I'm really looking forward to reading it.
anonnow Feb 8	@david_F: Can we expect a press release from Dell on this matter, public clearing your good name and trading reputation?
zanlok Feb 8	Post a wha...? He just did. Right here. To the people who are concerned about this nonissue. I doubt anyone else is [concerned]. Dell doesn't need to come out and say that they don't support terrorism, do they? Or any other random evil that they don't actually support? Right on their main website? The press release thing is silly. You people are just trying to generate news. As far as stifling discussion. Not me - no way. I love discussion. As do all of the other (much longer term) regulars. The only thing I'd want investigated is the issue of some one particular individual making a lot of posts (note that I never even said deleted or stifled - just looked into). So, can we get back to real like now. There's this important idea about a Beaver PC that I really want everyone to contribute to...
sammy2 Feb 8	david_f, Is it possible that you distributed the text, but were unaware what the material truly was and that it was part of Scientology's evangelical efforts?
zanlok Feb 8	now he's a muckraker.. if you are a reporter, just take your presspass and call Michael Dell directly
molemole Feb 8	Since I, like many others see links to xenu.net and whyaretheydead and have ignored them because I have no idea what they are an they sound wacko, here is a link to a Time Magazine article from 1991 titled "Scientology: The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power". Scientology then sued the author and Time 415,000,000 dollars of libel damages. Scientology also spent $30,000,000 on an advertising campaign to discredit http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html< only did federal judges dismiss this suit, they dismissed five appeals of it. Here is the relevant United States Supreme Court docket on the suit: http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/00-1683.htm< in the Second Court of Appeals decision on this case, (the full text of which can be found at https://www.tourolaw.edu/FTP/SecondCircuit/January01/98-9522.rtf -- open in wordpad or notepad) aptly summarized scientolog several times: * "To the extent that the Behar Article uses the term "Scientology," Chief Judge Walker is of the view that the term as used denotes a belief system, or, as the Article puts it, a "cult," [page 8]" * and on the subject of the author, Richard Behar's research, the court decisions says, "In view of the evidence in the record of Behar’s extensive research, we agree with the district court’s conclusion that no reasonable jury could find that defendants either knew or entertained serious doubts that these statements were false." * And lastly, the first three allegations Behar makes which the Supreme Court and Second Court of Appeals have both sided in favor of: 1. “[T]he church . . . survives by intimidating members and critics in a Mafia‑like manner.” 2. “‘Scientology is quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic . . . cult the country has ever seen.’” 3. “Those who criticize the church — journalists, doctors, lawyers and even judges — often find themselves . . . framed for fictional crimes, beaten up or threatened with death.” So while I agree that religions should be left alone, read the time article and tell me that scientology is a religion. However, I am waiting anxiously to hear how Dell responds to a dangerous cult calling it a partner in promulgating its beliefs. I know if I was a shareholder, I would be furious to hear a corporation in which I invested had failed to do everything in its power to distance themselves from "[2. “‘Scientology is] quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic . . . cult the country has ever seen.’” I hope Dell acts in a way we can all respect.
jamest Feb 8	david_f, thank you for looking into this.
molemole Feb 8	Well I was going to reply to Zanlocs' post until it disappeared, but I typed up a brief explanation of why Dell really needs to issue a clear and timely statement on this issue. I want to find out Dell's position on a subject important to me so I can base my own buying decisions off of the response and so I can make my friends aware of Dell's position. A cult alleging that a major corporation is assisting in cult-recruitment is a major allegation; when it comes straight from the mouth of Scientology's chief executive, it is an allegation impossible to ignore. And for another mainstream news organization, Fox News considered the allegations newsworthy: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329807,00.html< Kimora Lee is not a Scientologist [Dell part starts halfway down] Kimora Lee Simmons—celebrity designer, ex wife of Russell Simmons, and great beauty—is not happy with Scientology. Yesterday, we had to call her press person and inform her that Kimora is being featured in a new Scientology promotional video. The sect’s chief, David Miscavige, can be seen in the video telling followers that Simmons has been distributing the group’s “Way to Happiness” propaganda pamphlet in New Jersey and Los Angeles. The news that Simmons is somehow involved in Scientology comes around the 6-minute mark in the 8-minute video currently posted at YouTube at http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U.< Miscavige, dressed in a tuxedo, seems to be addressing a large crowd in the gauche, ornate Celebrity Center in Hollywood from the same podium on which he gave Tom Cruise an Olympic-looking medal in 2004. He tells the gathering that in order to reach new recruits 12 to 18 years old, they can do better than Simmons, who “funnels booklets” in the aforementioned locales. On the screen behind him, Simmons’ face is shown. Only one problem, though, Simmons’ publicist told me yesterday while her client was traveling. “I’ve asked everyone,” said the flack. “Kimora is not a Scientologist. We have nothing to do with this.” Of course, Miscavige also claims support in the video for Scientology from Phillips electronics in Pakistan, Dell computers “all over Africa,” Coca Cola Pakistan, 7-Eleven in Taiwan, and Ecuador’s postal system. He says that 70 million people are now reading or in possession of “Way to Happiness.” But mostly, Miscavige—who gave the speech at a New Year’s Eve rally at the end of 2006—has one goal: to obliterate psychiatry. He tells his listeners about the group’s progress in breaking “the dark spell cast across Earth by psychiatry.” “We booby-trapped the entire psychiatric eco system,” Miscavige says. “We’ve already yanked 21 psychiatrists’ licenses in the last four weeks.” Miscavige is under fire these days, by the way. His 24-year-old niece, Jenna, has left the group after being raised in it, and has a lot to say about what’s gone on behind the scenes. She’s already turned up on one syndicated show, “Inside Edition,” and will likely have more to say in the next few days, I am told." ------------------------------------------------------------------------... like with Kimora, Scientologists seemed to have been fabricating the connection, I can't wait to hear an official response to the Fox News allegations.
tomcruisethetan Feb 8	Well, yes, an actual press release might help to refute David Miscavige's claim, since this story is now hitting the mainstream press: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/webscout/2008/02/video-shows-sci.html
zanlok Feb 8	@DELL: there should be nothing wrong with me pointing this out
molemole Feb 8	http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/webscout/2008/02/corporations-na.html< like Dell has formally stated the claims of a Dell and Scientology partnership are 100% fiction, thankfully.
molemole Feb 8	And there isn't anything wrong with point out that I obviously registered here because I feel passionately about this and was looking for answers. If you're going to criticize, which is entirely okay, at least respond to what I have said.
zanlok Feb 8	<< already responded to every point. I'm not criticizing. (Mostly, I'm namecalling and badmouthing?) We disagree, which is fine. Maybe I just don't like headshrinkers very much, either ;{
jorge Feb 8	TOR bot! You need to look that up jackie, refer to my idea on removing unverified accounts and what not, you still have to learn that aspect of being a mod, well sooner or later.
zanlok Feb 8	He used a funny term earlier, actually. A socket puppet. Haha.
jervis961 Feb 8	Lets recap... 1. Idea posted for Dell to cut ties to Scientology. Little evidence given by the many duplicate accounts or "new people" (maybe a little of both). 2. Dell investigates and finds no evidence of the inferred connection. 3. Dell denies any affiliation with Scientology openly here. 4. Suddenly plans change and people aren't happy with the answer. 5. People want Dell to do a full scale media blitz or go back in time and change the superbowl commercial into an anti scientology one. I'm done trying to talk with these people who will just keep asking for more and more no matter what Dell does. As far as I'm concerned the issue has been addressed and can be linked to by anyone instead of asking for Dell to do the footwork for you. CASE CLOSED. MYTH: BUSTED. or whatever you want to say, In my book this thread is as dead as L. Ron Hubbard or whatever his crazy name was.
jorge Feb 8	But can a few posters with one post each or so, be wrong?
sugarbear Feb 8	It looks like a few newbies showed up to create publicity for the Scientologists. Think reverse psychology!
flash321 Feb 8	I too came here to show my displeasure in finding Dell's name being linked to scientology. I hope that Dell will issue a widely distributed press release stating what their affiliation with scientology is. And zanlok you can say that you have answered every point, just because you say you did doesn't make it so, you haven't even answered one. Towing the company line I see, always attack never defend And to jervis Myth not busted! In case you are a deaf mute the proof is in the video. I guess that maybe you and zanlok can't watch it because of your nanny program on your Church of scientology approved computers.
newnoncustomer Feb 8	I think most of the usual IdeaStorm users have left the building, so to speak, and this has likely become another forum in which OSA agents & Anonymous duke it out. I'll wrap up my message to Dell: The story has legs. Too many salacious elements are available for viewing in living color, and your name is smack in the middle of one of the worst ones. Stories appear on top-tier media as you read this. So yes, you're going to have to address it publicly, and loudly, to get across the message that you want no association with Scientology. Otherwise, this will drag on for a week or two, generating much angst over the weekend for your entire PR team and upper-level management. With protests scheduled for Sunday 2.10.08, Dell does not want to be caught in the tsunami of press except as an asterisk, which is unavoidable. That's advice from a professional PR person.
jpeter Feb 9	Dell needs to realise, no matter how much you spend on marketing and glossy ads, directors and executives listen to thier IT people. Sure, Dell may be onje of the most costs effective solutions, but if we say that Dell hardware is a cheap option that will cost them more in the longrun they will, and they do listen to us all. If Dell doesnt distance themselves with Scientology, IT people, many of which who side with Anonymous, and directly influence big spending decision makers, will happily use compeditor hardware. IT level staff don't care if Dwll si cheaper. It's not our company, not our money. Sure it may cost a bit more. But as the addage goes, no one ever got fired for buying IBM. And all the work done to side internet blogs, IT staff, and the collective voice of the internet by offering Linux PC's, will be undone by those very people that such a decision was made to appease by choosing sides in this issue. The PR damage is done. Soon you will be in damage control. You need to distance yourself or the wildfire will spread.
jervis961 Feb 9	flash321 - FYI personal attacks are against TOU on Dell sites. I find it interesting that you all have received confirmation from Dell that they have no affiliation with Scientology but still aren't happy. Do you want Dell to do an infomercial about the dangers of Scientology? Maybe Dell can sell Scientologists bugged computers to assist anonymouse in the campaign. Do you want Michael Dell to assasinate Tom Cruise? What exacly would make you happy enough to stop? Wait I'll answer for you...NOTHING. You are just going to keep asking for more and more in what ammounts to blackmail or terrorism. I am NOT a Scientologist (I think the funny video I posted should prove that) but I also do not belong with Anonymouse. I just think you have gotten your answer and need to drop it. Better yet, this site doesn't get much attention anyway so why not stick to the forums or go to www.direct2dell.com and flood that site for a while.
jervis961 Feb 9	badblood- Awesome compubeaver video.
jervis961 Feb 9	I just did some checking up on this big protest by anonymouse. Funny enough it was all started as a joke not a real protest, strange that nobody posted a link to this article in the LA Times. http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-me-scientology5feb05,0,3509266.story
benvaughan Feb 9	I work in IT, and will certainly not be buying any Dell hardware until the company makes a Press Release denying the claim made in this video.
sortasordid12 Feb 9	Oh, I dunno about that. I'm an ex-scientologist, and I was quite worried that Dell might have some connection to Scientology, seeing as how I personally feel that the cult is abusive based on my own experience, but at this point david_f has quite satisfied me that there is no cause for concern. As touretsky pointed out, David Miscavige is well known among the Scientology-critics community for embellishing his connections to corporate America, and making expansive claims about Scientology's progress that are total and utter lies. He has to tell his followers SOMETHING. I'm not excusing his lies, I'm just saying that David Miscavige has himself in a bit of a PR bind among his own followers, as each year, each time he gives a speech, he has to be seen to be doing better than he was doing last year. This is a serious problem for him, especially now, since Scientology is actually taking quite a beating in the press (deservedly so). Dell's problem here is that now this video has been published. It's one thing for Scientologists to lie to each other about their corporate influence, and quite another for them to have the vid published on YouTube, and incur undeserved bad PR for Dell. I'm sure Dell will be wary about this in future. Because of david_f's quick response, I'm satisfied that this isn't an issue. Dell has also written into the LA Times denying any connection with Scientology. I'd love to see a widely-publicized press release from Dell stating that they have no affiliation with Scientology, but that's my own personal agenda speaking, and frankly, that would be a silly corporate move that would just attract more attention to the matter - attention that Dell almost certainly doesn't want. Who can blame them? I certainly wouldn't want the media to pick up on this, if I was them. I'll bet Dell is plenty angry at Miscavige already.
cyberchrist Feb 9	Dell uses ETS = $cientology. Wake up http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cult-front-group-effective_training_solutions.htm
jervis961 Feb 9	People use cow dung to fertilize their plants and they grow better. OMG new Idea!!! PLANT GROWERS NEED TO CUT ALL TIES TO COWS!! How do you post videos on Youtube again? We need to oganize a protest. Give me a break.

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