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788

Diagnostic CD

788 points posted to Service and Support by joeaguy 02/19/07

Include a hardware diagnostic CD. Put it in, boot up from the cd, and it will scan that all your drives, memory, cards, motherboard, etc, are in working order. Some tools to check and repair NTFS, FAT, and etx3 file systems from the disk, and/or scan for viruses would be great also.

Apple provides hardware diagnostic CDs with many of its computers, and also includes a copy of TechTool, which can do disk repair and includes some preventative maintenance tools, with an AppleCare subscription. Having a report from such a tool really helps with support calls, in saving both support diagnostic time, and saving customers time in getting support to realize there is a real problem.

The diagnostic partition included on many Dell machines is just too easy to get erased if you reinstall your OS. A CD would be an option I'd prefer.

teotwawki
02/21/07		 See also my "Include a Linux Live CD" suggestion.
phubert28
03/28/07		 See also the following suggestion and comments... a bit more inclusive, I think...

Hardware diagnostic software and indicators
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/65367
phubert28
May 12		 Merged Idea originally posted 03/27/07
Hardware diagnostic software and indicators

Dell should provide diagnostic software and hardware for ALL platforms.

The software, like Firefox, should be self-updating. It should be available for Windows AND Linux.

Indicators should have a compact, succinctly-worded user guide, for those occasions when the system is so hosed the OS won't run.

The self-updating diagnostic software should provide the user an option to create a new, bootable diagnostic CD for those occasions when the hard drive has failed.

The CD should boot into a compact Linux that could still access the Internet with the user's latest settings so Dell's service web site could be contacted (and so the user could continue operating with, say, a flash card)

1GB (or so) Flash card boot & operation could be a second option.
steve2
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 03/27/07
Even better: Let all sensors follow standard protocol, so that standard software can read them.
Then the diagnostic cd can also be about any decent live cd.
phubert28
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 03/27/07
This isn't really a 'problem' with Dell's systems... but I DO see it as an OPPORTUNITY for Dell to be better... MUCH better... than its competitors.

How much of it would require effort by Intel & AMD is another matter. VIA???

Certainly, 'hardening' of the hardware platform would have to be driven down to the chip level to be economical for both the suppliers (the entire chain, including builders such as Dell) and customers.

However, it WOULD make the overall computing reliability MUCH better.

This really IS doable. AND, it CAN be done economically.

The only thing missing is the determination TO implement it!
phubert28
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 03/27/07
If server/workstation reliability features are to be completely commoditized, you're right, they'd best follow a published protocol.

Good thought!
phubert28
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 03/27/07
Our tech lead has a Dell Precision Workstation 450 for our VMWare ESX administration workstation, and I see the 450 has four lights labeled A-B-C-D.... dunno what they're for (s'pose I should ask, huh?) .. tho I must wonder if they're along the line of the "Lights" suggestion that 'inspired' this post...
phubert28
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 03/28/07
Perhaps a better title for all the related suggestions:

Consolidate and IMPROVE system diagnostic services.

Give the diagnostic software the option to CREATE an up-to-date, bootable disk.

Give the diag software the ability to check the Dell site for diag/firmware/BIOS updates.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/04/07
Along the lines of both diagnostics AND SERVICES, using VMWare ESX and a Dell-EMC SAN, we have been virtualizing Win2K and W2K3 servers on Dell 2950's. I've been monitoring the exhaust temp. on ONE of those servers and, in a computer room kept at 67F, the average temp for this box has gone from 89-90F to 98F as VM's are added to the host.

I am wondering about the potential effect on the lifespan of components in this box as average temp increases.

Does Dell know?

Should there be advice or recommendations?
jlancemiller
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/10/07
Phubert - I maxed out the configuration of a 2950 using Dell's Datacenter Capacity Planning tool at www.dell.com/calc and was able to determine a maximum delta T of 33.1F. If you are suppling 67F at the intake - 98F is not an unreasonable exhaust temperature and as long as every attempt is made to prevent recirculation and continue to provide intake temperatures below ASRAEs reccomended 77F there should be no detrimental effect on lifespan.
Dell does publish white papers that address this kind of question - try a search on search.dell.com
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/10/07
Thanks for the reference!
foxconnians4life
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/18/07
Dell Form II error msg::::::::::: DETECTING A POSSIBLE AUDIO PLAYBACK CONFLICT

User ::::::::::: Ok I closed some players

Dell Form II error msg::::::::::: PROBLEM >>> RESOLVED
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/18/07
oooooo kaaaay ... tho I'm thinking more along the lines of HARDWARE issues...
presto_fabien
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/19/07
LEDs a,b,c,d are already on the system to indicate an error during the POST process, so an hardware failure. for any software failure, see microsoft kb.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/22/07
presto_fabien ... which system? rack-mount servers? Precision Workstations? Which models? MICROSOFT keyboard?? I have the compact Dell kb... no LED'S beyond num lock, caps lock, scroll lock... But THAT doesn't address the full text of my suggestion, anyway.

Did you read beyond the title?
presto_fabien
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/22/07
On desktop, most on them, it's on the back, named ABCD (but you can' really read it when it's off). For other, it's on the front, generally closed to the ethernet led.
On laptop, it use the power, hdd, wifi, battery led.

For more information about Dell products, chassis' specifications and more, you can read manuals in the technical support section.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/23/07
As I said above... this doesn't address the full text of my suggestion... in fact, it doesn't get close.
presto_fabien
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/30/07
kb = knowledge database, not keyboard. I you can take few minutes to go to the manuals sections in the dell support website, you will find your answer.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/31/07
The knowledge database isn't the issue, either.

MY issue is a combination of highly automated diagnostic/analysis/update (drivers, firmware) software that can create current Linux-based boot CD's or bootable flash memory sticks WITH the user's current internet settings and Firefox, as well as updating itself (the diagnostic software).

Or, haven't you READ the suggestion???????

This software should be available for Windows AND Linux systems. For servers, notebooks and desktops.

It would cost Dell to develop and maintain, but could SAVE Dell in support costs... as well as providing Dell customers (especially ordinary consumers) with a far better overall computing experience -when things go wrong-.

Providing -complete- home solutions to include wired and wireless networks would also help tremendously as so many are trying to connect multiple machines to the Internet... and often struggling with it.

Switching ISP's is often painful... and ISP's, from all I've seen, are rarely helpful. Dell could provide real service here.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 05/31/07
Israeli firm puts Linux computer on a USB stick

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2007/05/30/41488/Israeli+firm+puts+...< Israeli start-up has put a Linux computer on a USB stick to act as a security system for notebook PCs and expects other applications to come.
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/02/07
Phubert, the ABCD or 1234 lights indicate where in the post process the system is. If the system hangs during the POST, it would indicate the component of probable failure. I know it isn't automated, but your assumption is the system DOES post, when alot of times is does not post and those indicators are great in determining the issue.

I do like your idea tho.
presto_fabien
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/03/07
and why not a software to analyse the crash of the analyse's software ?
there is enough things to diagnose easly a computer crash.
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/03/07
There are plenty of hardware indicator and hardware diagnostic software, but dell really doesn't supply OS/Software diagnostic tools. I suppose the reason is they historically haven't included software support as part of the warranty service. Dell also warranties the system to work as out of the box (hence the constant OS restores from tech) rather than how the OS exists months or years down the road. Dell does supply a crash analysis tool and in my limited experience it is so-so.
jorge
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/03/07
No Bloatware is the motto here on IdeaStorm. Unless its built into the BIOS or something like that its a no.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/05/07
@claypidgeon - "dell really doesn't supply OS/Software diagnostic tools"

So what, then, is DSET?
Or, what are the Server Update ISO's?

I'm simply saying that Dell should consolidate and EXTEND the software it already has to automate the entire process, simplifying and largely eliminating much of the _human_ involvement in supporting hardware... not just for servers but for home systems (desktop/laptop) as well!
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/05/07
Remember, my FULL suggestion isn't just for diagnostics, it's also for the highest reasonable level of uptime possible... see the UP-TO-DATE boot CD/flash drive with USER INTERNET SETTINGS. Naturally, if the MOBO has gone south, you're SOL and LED's are your fallback.
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/06/07
Sorry Phubert, the assumption here (at least for me) is for HSB unless you specify the med/large sectors. There are a disjointed set of tools for various items, mostly centered around hardware diags (Dell Connect even has some good analysis tools with it - even a windows check). Should Dell do better at organizing, presenting, and updating these, YES. Should dell remove the diag partition and use a bootable diagnotic memory stick, YES. Again, I did read your whole idea and did promote it because there is a need. I would agree in the business sectors, the removal of Dell Humans may be acceptable but for the home user it may not be so wise.

The problem is Dells current philosophy (and warranty) surrounds hardware only and limited support for software.

Did I say I like this idea in my earlier post?
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/07/07
@claypidgeon - I fail to see why Dell shouldn't have an integrated strategy for hardware diagnostics & recovery that can be applied appropriately across ALL the platforms they offer. The recovery DISK (CD, Flash stick) is aimed at desktops/laptops for HOME use, primarily, I would think. Corporate ('enterprise' = also gov't, education, et al) would have their own procedures and processes in-place.

This suggestion was (ultimately) intended to aim at a higher level of automation for firmware & driver updates, hardware diagnostics, and recovery. Various suggestions (including a few of mine) piecemealed this, so I thought the entire range of related issues should be addressed in a single place.

Periodically saving key user (ISP) settings and data (such as "my documents") appropriate to the platform they are running on a bootable medium would also provide the user with limited functionality as long as their motherboard was functioning. Naturally, if the NIC dies and they have no backup, they're still offline. So, provide (at least optionally) dual NICs as well??

REDUNDANCY, however, is a matter of how much protection a user wants and what they are willing to pay. Thorough, automated TOOLS are another aspect of update/diagnosis/recovery.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/08/07
Oh, claypidgeon, I'm not suggesting REMOVING Dell humans! I AM suggesting that there are means to provide better information both to higher end home users _and_ to Dell techs when calling-in problems. Faster, more complete and accurate information certainly won't hurt the service call turnaround in any way at all.

In fact, if the system still has internet connectivity, Dell could consider a SERVICE whereby the system info is UPLOADED (along with service tag# so Dell knows what they're dealing with) as part of the call. It could even be done on a callback basis (Dell receives uploaded info -with- your contact info (in their database?) and THEY call YOU.

Remember, this is just brainstorming (I'm having a brainstorm? Oh well... probably do)... how many ways can we look at this??

Thank you for your participation in this discussion!
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/08/07
More than happy to participate. It is a good topic and should be looked at hard.

If you have a Dell TechId and call in, your on-phone time "should" be short as long as you have the right info.

For support, I still think business and home should separated. Past year they have been moving forward with an on-line "service". Dell connect does way more than remote terminal and a first step in this idea, just needs to go more, including supply a bootable usb stick (free-dos or linux) to perform some diags (or even the recovery partitions) and maybe get the system online. Key would be to make it idiot proof in running.

Automated software diag is still kinda crap and I think Dell will be hard pressed to actually support windows other than system restore (especially with the budget systems).

[I used to work at a US based call center for Dells XPS line...]
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 06/11/07
Again, I'm not suggesting diagnostics FOR software ... only for HARDWARE, and that shouldn't be a difficult matter at all (lots of detail, but without the changing variables and configuration you find with software).

And, I'm not really commenting on WHO supports the platforms or how platform support is -organized- ... only that tools available for servers should also be available for desktops/laptops... that the basic hardware diagnostics (and upgrade of firmware & drivers AS WELL AS of the diag software, itself) should be essentially the same.

Now, if ALL systems ran Linux and the Windows stuff as a VM UNDER Linux, I think the hardware diag side would likely be far more stable!

As I understand from those who HAVE Mac's, the Mac runs Windows (via Parallels) better than Windows runs by itself!!

Hmmmmmmm...
scotty750
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 07/18/07
already exists. though mostly useless. No good onsite tech actually bothers with diags most of the time since it has a nasty habit of passing failed hardware. in fact, I had a system toda pass memory diags yet wouldn't boot to windows with the bad stick of ram in it. Diags are only as good as what they are coded to look for. Nothing will ever supplant hands on nowledge of the systems. but since the diags software already exists both on the hard drive (F12 at boot) and on the resource CD, the point is moot.
phubert
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 07/19/07
Compare to the mainframe... IBM, RCA and UNIVAC mainframes (along with Stratus and Tandem systems (with all of which I have been familiar)) have provided reliable hardware diagnostics for DECADES.

If Intel would like us to take their commodity systems SERIOUSLY for SERIOUS applications, they had bloody well better aim at a target that has exceeded and preceded them for much of OUR history of computing.

IF Intel system diags are so poor, it's simply a travesty that needs correcting.

As to supplanting knowledge, scotty, these days it's far too difficult to FIND knowledge! Good programming has to underpin good diagnostics... and I'm afraid really good programmers are very hard to find. However, they DO exist and most of our good solutions are merely lacking the WILL to provide them (or the insight that they ARE truly needed!).
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 07/20/07
In short, most dell diags are not so good. should dell make the desktop hardware with better ability to self diag, probably. will it cost the customer more, probably. will the customer get better service, probably. will dell make more money in the long run, probably. will the customer still buy the cheapest piece of crud available, probably.

did i say the current diag software is crap?
jorge
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 07/20/07
No.
claypidgeon
May 12		 Merged Comment originally posted 07/20/07
the diag software is crap.
 
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