Make Linux boxes easily flaggable if Windows later installed

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Make Linux boxes easily flaggable if Windows later installed

-140 points posted to Linux, Operating Systems by jmecc 03/20/07

Make sure that Linux machines (& no-operating system machines) have easily-differentiable serial numbers and mac addresses such that microsoft can be suspicious of any of these machines using windows.

Pirates want machines without windows to be able to provide their own pirated windows and save the money. A good deal of the legal copies home users have are due to OEM's like dell including it in systems, so allowing an easy bypass to this is a bad idea.

Anyone petitioning for linux instead of windows won't mind as they won't be trying to install windows right?

Deciding against linux and to windows later would be fine as MS would authenticate your code like usual, it would just be a red flag to them to make sure you aren't using a volume key or to ask a few more questions during phone authentication. This would add another layer of work and uncertainty for pirates.

phubert 03/20/07	An article recently pointed out that Microsoft is NOT really aggressive in pursuing pirates outside the U.S., for this reason: Windows PIRACY ensures OS DOMINANCE _by_ Microsoft. So, exactly what value does this suggestion have? Is there any particular reason to make this easier for Microsoft or the BSA? Why should Dell do this?
keithndani 03/20/07	Why force a machine to support one OS or the other? What about dual booting machines? What about Virtual machines? I don't need big brother trying to tell me what OS should be loaded on my machine because of the serial #.
jmecc 03/20/07	I am calling out the people who are voting for linux not because they like linux but just to make their windows piracy easier. This whole linux movement could make windows a lot more expensive for the ones of us getting it legally. I'm cool with dual-booting since you are still purchasing windows. I am saying that the people who buy the linux option just to format it with windows when it gets there should be caught.
jemfisher 03/20/07	I have read some stupid comments, but this has to be an all time best. If I buy a machine with no OS or a machine with a WM loaded on a linux kernel, what right does an outside company have to track my purchase. What you are saying is that Microsoft should have a right to monitor what I buy, that Microsoft would have a right to my details, and when this right is given to Microsoft by senseless people like you, they will no doubt wish to charge me for the privilege. If you purchase a machine with Linux as an OS, why would any sane person want to load a sub standard OS latter?
motie35 03/20/07	Oh, come on, jmecc. You think Microsoft needs to justify raising the price on their operatiing system? I think they've done a good job of that already. $400 for Windows Vista Ultimate! It's not like they're running on razor thin margins! But the hardware manufacturers' margins are much smaller than Microsoft's. Hey, I've spent money on Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, and XP, and I'm simply not going to buy Vista. I've bought the boxed retail versions, and also paid for the versions that came installed on my computers. I even own a copy of Windows 2003 server, and a copy of Vista Release Candiate 1. I am probably going to actually buy a copy of 2000 Pro, even though I already have the right to downgrade from XP. Further, Microsoft should have a reasonable policy for transferring the software from one machine to another. For example, If I have an older computer that came with Windows installed, I paid for the license. Now, I want to remove Windows, and install Linux on that machine. Now the Windows OS which I have already paid for, I should be able to install on another computer without fear of being accused of pirating. The next machine I buy will be a Mac, or a Linux machine, with Parallels software so I can run the copies of Windows I already own in a virtual machine, and continue to run the few Windows programs that I still use. I'm sure I'll also use ReactOS in one of my virtual machines as well, and probably FreeDOS or MS-DOS too. I actually still have software for Windows 3.1 and Dos that I like, and want to be able to use on occasion, and plenty of investment in both time and money on what I already have. Further, what If I want to buy a Dell machine with no OS so I can install my 2003 server on it? I like to play with different Operating systems, but the truth is, I have no desire to buy Vista. They want too much money, I don't like the built in DRM, and I don't want it anyway until they iron out the first and second sets of bugs. You simply have it wrong here. This is not about piracy, it's about choice, and the people who are requesting Linux installed are asking for it because they want Linux, not because they want to steal. If that were the case, they wouldn't be buying a computer from Dell in the first place. They'd be building it from parts or getting it from some nefarious source, and then installing their stolen software on it to sell it. Most of the people who want Linux factory installed on the computer they buy are those who want Linux, but don't want to spend hours tweaking their own installation to make all the hardware do what it's supposed to. The advantage of having Dell install Linux in the first place, is the assurance their hardware will work with Linux.
jmecc 03/20/07	I'm really not talking about MS being able to watch you and your linux machine. I am talking about MS being able to notice you when you activate windows only. No big brother watching your every move, only being flagged when you install their product on a machine you bought with the specified intention not to install thir product on.
jmxz 03/20/07	I don't think many people buy Linux machines in order to run Windows. On the other hand, many people DO seem to get Windows-Home and then install their work's copy of Windows Professional on it. I'd say if Dell works to lock down machines, they should look into the Windows Vista Basic crippleware first - since those are the most likely people will crack to illegally upgrade to Ultimate. I support the idea, though, since anything Dell can do to enforce the more subtle Microsoft licensing clauses, the more people will be looking for alternatives.
jmecc 03/20/07	Nobody buys linux machines to format them with windows. NOW. If dell sells for less without windows, many will be tempted to save a few here & get a buddy to load it with software. How many people buy office from dell right now? Get my drift?
motie35 03/20/07	jmxz, those companies most likely paid for those microsoft licenses twice, once when they bought their bulk site licensing agreement, and again when they bought the hardware with windows already installed on it(because they couldn't buy it any other way), and jmecc, it's my business what I do with my copy of Windows I already paid for, and I want to be able to move it around as desired. Same with MS Office 97 and MS Office 2003, which I legitimately own, even though I now use OpenOffice.Org primarily, because I actually like the spreadsheet better, and I'm not willing to pay for extra copies of MS Office just to be able to use it on both my desktop and my laptop legally. The best thing I've seen Microsoft do lately, looking at the packaging, is when I noticed on the Office Student/Teacher edition that it allows 3 installs, and doesn't specify whether that's once on 3 computers, or 3 times on the same computer, so I think I might actually be able to use it on both my computers without getting into trouble with the license.
motie35 03/20/07	Oh, by the way, I'd pay equal money for a laptop with Redhat Linux on it if it came with the support contract, but if it's community support only, It should cost less. Dell's only warranty support requirement should be to insure that they provide whatever drivers are necessary to make the hardware work with the operating system. I don't expect them to support Firefox, or OpenOffice, or Evolution. I just want to be sure the wireless network card and touchpad, external video port, etc. actually work as expected.
benjesuit 03/20/07	head shake
steveoc 03/20/07	I actually LIKE this idea a lot, even though Im supposed to be some sort of long-haired, unwashed, rabid linux hippie. If Dell were to do this, it means that these machines that march out the door from the factory would not only be MS-free, but also less likely to ever become infected with MS software in the future. I like that concept, and Im all for the idea. It sounds like the original poster of the idea may have had Microsoft's best interests at heart when he posted this idea, but the realistic affect of this would be damaging to the further spread of Microsoft. When you think about it - the funny thing with so many of these new-digital-frontier issues, (Like what is happening with MP3s vs Music industry, Movies vs Torrents, OOXML vs ODF, DRM vs FOSS, etc, etc) .. is the harder THEY try to keep some level of control over things, the more slippery the sucker gets. All THEY can do to combat this is add more and more layers of rules, regulations and rubbish to their offerings. Rather than improve the situation for them, it just drives more people away from their products. I fully support any idea that makes it harder to poison a good machine with a bad operating system, and so you have my vote.
phubert 03/21/07	"I don't think many people buy Linux machines in order to run Windows." I understand it's fairly common where piracy IS rampant... and that ISN'T in the U.S.!! Again, Microsoft doesn't pursue such piracy as it helps ensure their dominance where most won't or CAN'T pay Microsoft's exorbitant licensing fees. THERE, piracy is Microsoft's hedge against significant ... VERY significant ... intrusion into Microsoft's 'market share' ... if the Third World toppled to Linux, so would the rest of the world and Microsoft would truly be no more. In the Third World, piracy is Microsoft's ally, believe it or not.
jmxz 03/21/07	Phubert: Software piracy is Microsoft's intentional international distribution strategy (much like paying OEMs for the "Dell Recommends Vista" ads to cover the cost of the OS here). Bill Gates himself said he wants people in China to pirate Windows: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/02/23/microsoft.china.idg/ "Although about three million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software," Gates reportedly said. "Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." I agree with steveoc on this one - any technology that helps enforce Microsoft licensing is good - because it makes people understand just how much they can (legally) do with Linux compared to Windows. I really do hope they add similar checks to Windows-Home&Vista-Basic to protect against people installing Vista-Ultimate&Vista-Business tha they steal from work. And motie35: I wasn't talking just about corporations who upgrade their internal machines illegally (though some do with MSDN licenses that are only licensed for development purposes) - I was also thinking of home users who pirate their company's copy usually with an illegitimate excuse like "I once checked work email from home so I can use my employer's site license".
angel_lb 03/24/07	Piracy spreads the disease, somehow.. more people using it at home make more people knowing it and using it in business. Quite simple. That was the idea behind letting people pirate windows in the first place. It's like cheap drug dealing.. Giving some, then once the 'client' i addicted, sell it with a high price tag.
cosh 04/01/07	Fortunately I don't think this flagging/tagging idea is legal!!!
phubert 05/29/07	"Phubert: Software piracy is Microsoft's intentional international distribution strategy " Isn't that what I was saying???

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