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4800

Pre-installed Linux must play commercial DVDs

4800 points posted to Education, Linux by jonmca 05/03/07 **PARTIALLY IMPLEMENTED**

You probably know this, but a "show stopper" requirement for most consumers and many educators and business road warriers is having laptops and desktops that can play commmercial DVDs. I have a hunch that preinstalled Linux on Dell machines will be a terrific success if Dell Linux desktops and laptops have this capability. I've been told that http://www.videolan.org/ has one possible approach.

Having Linux playing commercial DVDs may also catapult Dell into the complex Digital Rights Management contoversy so it would be wise to get Dell's legal staff involved ASAP and also have this discussed this at the highest strategic management levels at Dell (if this is not already being done).


Check out the Ideas in Action post from Daniel Judd. And you can also check out this follow-up post from John Hull who leads our engineering efforts behind Linux on consumer systems.

jmxz
05/03/07		 IBM went through this back in '01 when they used InterVideo's LinDVD for a fully licensed DVD solution for Linux.
http://slashdot.org/linux/01/04/19/1345211.shtml ...
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/04/18/1542224&mode=nocomment ...

Note that at the time Dell was also selling Linux "across [their] entire product line" - though I can't recall if Dell Linux desktops or notebooks in '00 had DVD support

Toshiba and Lenovo also seem to use LinDVD for fully licensed DVD playback under Linux in their laptops: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/65462
mwm
05/03/07		 Yes, today commercial (i.e., encrypted) DVD playback is indeed a show-stopper for me as well. It is an expectation today not unlike having Flash available for browsers or Adobe Reader. One reason it is a show-stopper and not merely an inconvenience is that the consequence of this inability means that the user must boot into another operating system. If the solution is merely a few bucks for a general license fee at the time of the laptop purchase, then it is not a problem for most of us, I expect.
marcusliciniuscrassus
05/03/07		 Do current Dells running Windows play commercial DVDs out of the box? None of the Windows computers I've ever bought from Dell or anywhere else could play commercial DVDs without buying something extra. It appears people always want to raise the bar higher for Linux than for Windows.
spm
05/05/07		 Make commercial DVD players and codecs etc. available on "Click 'n run" for Ubuntu.
jmxz
05/07/07		 marcusliciniuscrassus

Consumer Dell's do - because they usually bundle third party software from Cyberlink or Corel or Sonic.
honeyb
05/08/07		 Sell it in Canada, we don't have a DMCA and decss is legal!
honeyb
05/08/07		 . sorry dupe
rebanyo
05/17/07		 Decss is legal in Argentina... I wish WE had Linux laptops.
scott31337
05/22/07		 We've already been over this chief - licensing rights/etc - you can get automatix and click 5 buttons and it will do it also - we just wont have to support it then, and it'll work just fine... yes, Videolan is a GREAT piece of software too, for Windows and Nix...
kitakits
05/23/07		 Your pushing this issue the wrong way guys... It is LINUX you should be speaking to not DELL for this one.
jmxz
05/23/07		 kitakits:

Linux has nothing to do with it. Technologically Linux has all the DVD software available.
It's a licensing issue (royalties for MPEG-LA, The DVD Consortium, Dolby, and DTS) - that the OEMs usually take care of for Windows installs.

Here's an example of the licensing paperwork/legalwork that Dell jumped through to get DVD on Windows:
http://contracts.onecle.com/intervideo/dell.settle.2002.04.26.shtml<
kitakits
05/24/07		 I see. sorry :)
lotu
05/25/07		 yea DVD support is a nightmare becasue it can be argued (disagee with the argument but it hasn't been well tested in court) that playing a DVD useing Linux is illegal in the USA, or at least selling a computer that uses linux to play a DVD. So Dell could get sued over offering this to consumers in the USA. Instead maybe you could just have a link to how to install dvd software, like:
https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/musicvideophotos/C/video.html
jmxz
05/25/07		 lotu: "...hasn't been well tested in court"

Here's a list of patents you need to license just for the Video portion of a DVD player.
The audio parts have nearly as intimidating lists from guys like Dolby

CANON INC.

US 4,982,270
JP 2,674,059

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

US Re 35,093
CA 2,096,431-C
DE 69129595
DE 69130329
FR 0564597
FR 0630157
GB 0564597
GB 0630157
JP 2,746,749

FRANCE TELECOM (CNET)

US 4,796,087
DE 3767919
FI 86241
FR 2599577
GB 0248711
IT 0248711
SE 0248711

FUJITSU

US 5,235,618
CA 2,029,320
DE 69030056.5
FR 0431319
GB 0431319
JP 2,787,599

GE TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT, INC.

US 4,706,260
US 4,813,056
DE 3855203 T2
FR 0395709
GB 0395709
HK 1,004,307
JP 2,790,509
SG 63561
US 5,426,464
US 5,486,864
CN 94105749
DE 69421444
ES 2,140,477
FR 0624983
GB 0624983
IT 0624983
KR 291492
MX 188411
RU 2,115,261
TR 28291
TW NI-092150
US 5,491,516
AT 167015
BR PI 9405710-9
DE 69410781.6
ES 2,117,252
FR 0679316
GB 0679316
IN 183230
IT 50123 BE 98
KR 282981
MX 187475
MY 109889-A
PT 0679316
RU 2,115,258
SE 0679316
TR 27398
TW NI-66422
VN 526
US 5,600,376
IN 181018
US 5,796,743
KR 283710
MX 201309
MY 112121
TW NI-070615

GENERAL INSTRUMENT CORPORATION

US 4,394,774+
US 4,698,672
US 5,068,724
AU 627421-B2
NO 179890-C
TW NI-52990
US 5,091,782
AT 139402-T1
AU 627684-B2
CA 2,038,043-C
DE 69120139-T2
DK 0451545 T3
ES 2088440-T3
FR 0451545
GB 0451545
GR 3020736
IT 0451545
NO 178419-C
NO 178420-C
TW NI-50643
US 5,093,720

+ Expired December 15, 1998

HITACHI, LTD.

JP 2,666,793
JP 2,907,072
JP 3,085,289
JP 3,173,508

KDDI CORPORATION

JP 1,835,550

MATSUSHITA

US Re 35,910
AU 612543-B2
CA 2,016,523-C
CH 0397402
DE 69027710
ES 2091790
FR 0397402
GB 0397402
IT 0397402
JP 1,949,701
JP 2,695,244
KR 63,477
NL 0397402
SE 0397402
US Re 36,015
US Re 36,507
US 5,223,949
US 5,412,430
FR 0526163
GB 0526163
JP 2,699,703
NL 0526163
US 5,784,107
JP 2,684,941
JP 2,524,044
JP 2,794,899
JP 2,828,095
JP 2,899,478

MITSUBISHI

US4,954,892
CA 2,000,156-C
DE 68913508-T2
FR 0382892
GB 0382892
HK 1008133
IT 0382892
JP 2,100,607
KR 58,957
SE 0382892
US 5,072,295
AU 625476-B2
CA 2,023,543-C
DE 69027820-T2
FI 98421-B
FR 0414193
GB 0414193
HK 1008129
IT 0414193
JP 2,128,624
KR 77,808
NL 0414193
NO 306749
SE 0414193
SG 45452
US 5,949,489
CA 2,234,391
JP 2,924,431
JP 3,127,956
US 5,963,258
CA 2,234,387
SG 65597
US 5,970,175
NO 310,849
US 5,990,960
US 6,002,439
US 6,097,759
CA 2,327,489
NO 310,850
US 6,188,794



JP 1,869,940
JP 2,510,456
JP 2,577,745
JP 2,814,819
JP 2,924,430
CA 2,065,803
NO 307200
SG 64870
JP 3,019,827

NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION (NTT)

JP 1,939,084
JP 2,562,499

PHILIPS
US 4,849,812
CN 1013425-B
DE 3871998-T2
FR 0282135-B
GB 0282135-B
IT 0282135-B
JP 2,534,534-B2
KR 9700364-B1
TW 29492-B
US 4,901,075
AT 260748-B
CN 1011459B
DE 3750206-C0
FR 0260748-B
GB 0260748-B
IT 0260748-B
JP 2,711,665
KR 118698
NL 0260748-B
SE 0260748-B
TW 35350-B
US 5,021,879
DE 3855114-B
FR 0290085-B
GB 0290085-B
JP 2,630,809-B
US 5,027,206
AT E 131335
AU 634173-B
BE 0359334-B
CH 0359334-B
CN 1018695-B
DE 68925011-B
ES 0359334-B
FI 92127
FR 0359334
GB 0359334-B
GR 0359334-B
HK 96-1695-B
IT 0359334-B
JP 2,961,131
KR 153275
LU 0359334
NL 0359334
SE 0359334
SG 9692026
US 5,128,758
CA 2,018,031
JP 2,791,822
MX 172405-B
US 5,179,442
CA 2,304,917
US 5,333,135
DE 69415698
FR 0609936
GB 0609936
KR 290326
MX 185421
US 5,606,539
AT E157830-B
BE 0460751-B
DE 69127504-B
DK 0460751-B
FR 0460751-B
GB 0460751-B
IT 0460751-B
KR 239837 NL
0460751-B
SE 0460751-B
US 5,608,697
US 5,699,476
AU 641726
CA 2,036,585
DE 69109346.6
DK 0443676
FI 101442
FR 0443676
GB 0443676
HK 96-615
IT 0443676
NL 0443676
SE 0443676
SG 9690467.7
US 5,740,310
CA 2,043,670
US 5,844,867

ROBERT BOSCH GMBH

DE 3769306
FR 0279053
GB 0279053
IT 0279053
NL 0279053

SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.

US 5,461,421
JP 3,159,853
KR 0166722
US 5,467,086
JP 2,665,127
KR 166716
US 5,654,706
DE 69321781
FR 0580454
GB 0580454
HK 1008711
KR 95,631
KR 132895

SANYO ELECTRIC CO., LTD.

JP 2,812,446

SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA

US 5,418,782
AU 683134
CA 2,180,363
JP 2,940,638
MX 190,776
US 5,420,866
AU 687844
CA 2,186,368
JP 2,940,639
US 5,457,701
AU 680680
CA 2,180,342
JP 2,937,301

SHARP KABUSHIKI KAISHA

JP 2,951,861

SONY

US Re 37,222
DE 69031107
DE 69033782
FR 0424026
FR 0713340
GB 0424026
GB 0713340
JP 3,159,310
US 4,864,393
DE 3854171-T2
GB 2205710-B2
US 5,191,436
DE 69127224
FR 0456433
GB 0456433
HK 1,014,415
JP 2,874,745
JP 2,877,225
JP 2,969,782
US 5,291,486
GB 2289194-B2
GB 2289195-B2
US 5,298,991
DE 69229153
FR 0527011
GB 0527011
US 5,343,248
JP 2,977,104
US 5,428,396
US 5,461,420
AU 672812
CN 45,549
US 5,481,553
AT 185663
AU 673244-B2
BE 0638218
BR 9404321-1
CH 0638218
DE 69421135
DK 0638218
EG 20330
ES 2,137,358
FR 0638218
GB 0638218
GR 3,032,133
HK 1,013,575
HU 217744
IE 0638218
IL 108787
IT 0638218
KR 287490
LU 0638218
MC 0638218
MX 197,778
MY 110794
NL 0638218
NZ 261907-B
PL 173287
PT 0638218
RU 2,119,727
SE 0638218
TR 28436-B
TW 66605-B
US 5,510,840
AT 0573665
DE 69227185
FR 0573665
GB 0573665
IT 0573665
NL 0573665



US 5,539,466
AT 0598904
AU 662548-B2
DE 69229229
FR 0598904
GB 0598904
IT 0598904
US 5,543,847
US 5,559,557
AU 669209-B2
CN 58,202
HK 1,013,573
US 5,663,763
AU 667970
CN 56,083
US 5,666,461
AU 670288
CN 55,336
MY 109,945
TW 70,497
US 5,701,164
US 5,946,042
US 5,982,437
US 6,040,863
US 6,160,849
JP 2,712,645

TOSHIBA CORPORATION

US 5,317,397
JP 2,883,585
US 5,424,779
JP 2,755,851
US 5,467,136
JP 2,758,378
US 5,742,344
JP 2,883,592
US 5,986,713

VICTOR COMPANY OF JAPAN, LIMITED (JVC)

US Re 34,965
DE 69024235
DE 690308191
FR 0379217-B
FR 0572046-B
GB 0379217-B
GB 0572046-B
JP 2,072,546
JP 2,530,217
US Re 35,158
DE 69031045
FR 0584840-B
GB 0584840-B
JP 2,137,325
NL 0584840-B
US Re 36,822
JP 2,962,012
US 5,175,618
DE 69123705
DE 69131257
FR 0484140-B
FR 0683615
GB 0484140-B
GB 0683615
JP 2,830,881
JP 2,921,755
KR 94554

Dell and their software suppliers (CyberLink or Corel or Sonic) deal with those for Windows. Some computer manufacturers deal with those licenses for their Linux DVD playback devices and computers (IBM did, Toshiba, Lenovo seem to with InterVideo for their Linux DVD playback computers). But I don't think anyone's daring to sell a DVD player without one of the pretty standard patent license agreements.
reg
05/25/07		 IF YOU CLEAN SLATE - WHITE ROOM - REWRITE SOMETHING FROM SCRATCH -
YOU VIOLATE NO PATENTS. (nal)

With OPEN SOURCE - you can see what people write - and you'll KNOW they are NOT Infringing.

With WINDOWS / ANY other closed source - you DONT KNOW if it violates the patents - they hide the truth.
rotthund
05/30/07		 Reg, that works for copyrights, not patents, and that's the problem with patents. MS gave a count of the Open Source's patent violations, but haven't given specifics.
reg
05/30/07		 oh - well, I just patented 1s and 0s retroactively - all MS code belong to US!
Make your time...
s_wel
06/02/07		 It's all down to the software there is probobly many free linux dvd players on the net
byco
06/03/07		 Actually I think it all comes down to the encryption used by the MPAA to prevent coping. Only software manufacturers that license the CSS decoder from the MPAA can play commercial DVDs. The D.M.C.A. makes it a criminal offense for anyone in the USA to bypass or attempt to bypass anti-copy protection. So if you have the libdvdcss2 file on your Linux computer, you are a criminal and subject to prosecution under federal law.
reg
06/03/07		 The USA Federal Government should SEIZE the MPAA CSS encoding / decoding Intellectual Property under
the powers of eminent domain.

To Protect USA interests and protect hundreds of millions of USA citizens digital rights, CSS will be forced into
open source, and the MPAA dissolved under federal executive order.
s_wel
06/03/07		 Do you know whether this applies outside the united states?
reg
06/03/07		 LOL!

As if that made any difference in Iraq...
s_wel
06/03/07		 Probobly same in britain as blair seems to be bushes conjoined twin
rotthund
06/04/07		 "Finland court: Breaking "ineffective" copy protection is permissible
By Eric Bangeman | Published: May 25, 2007 - 01:08PM CT

The Helsinki District Court has dealt another blow to CSS, the copy-protection scheme used in commercial DVDs. In a ruling issued today, the court found that CSS is "ineffective" as a form of DRM and that the two defendants cited for violating Finnish copyright law were not guilty. "
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-finland-court-breaking-ineffect...
aikiwolfie
09/26/07		 Personally I think the whole issue of patent protection for software needs to be looked at. Especially the whole practice of hoarding patents purely to push competitors out of the market. Perhaps a similar principle to Arctic territory claims should be implemented. Use it or lose it!

I also think that when a technology becomes as wide spread and as crucial as DVD technology then it should automatically enter international public ownership. Either that or patent and copyright owners shouldn't be allowed to charge prohibitive prices for licences and also shouldn't be allowed to with hold licences from paying applicants.
lionel
12/19/07		 Changed status to **PARTIALLY IMPLEMENTED**.

Check out the Ideas in Action post from Daniel Judd.

And you can also check out this follow-up post from John Hull who leads our engineering efforts behind Linux on consumer systems. The stellar vlog camera work was done by your truly. :)

The posts mention that we've added LinDVD to the 7.10 distribution. Know that some of you who have already purchased a Dell Linux system with 7.04 are wanting to know how to get LinDVD. We're working on that.. stay tuned.
aikiwolfie
12/19/07		 Lionel I'll give Dell credit where it's due. You did good with LinDVD.
jmxz
12/19/07		 @lionel:

THANKS!!!
jmxz
Jun 24		 This idea seems to be a dup of the earlier idea here : http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/65462

Also, last year Lionel wrote " Know that some of you who have already purchased a Dell Linux system with 7.04 are wanting to know how to get LinDVD. We're working on that.. stay tuned."

Any updates on that?
aikiwolfie
Jun 24		 The update should probably be "IMPLEMENTED". LinDVD is on the installation ISO.
jmxz
Jun 24		 Ah. So I (who got my Ubuntu Dell with 7.04 before they bundled LinDVD) can download the ISO with it? Cool!
aikiwolfie
Jun 25		 I don't know if it's on the download ISO. But it's on the ISO that came with my M1330n. no harm in taking a look.
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