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250

Don't totally disable editing ideas.

250 points posted to IdeaStorm by jmxz 08/23/07

In some comment somewhere dell_admin1 suggested that editing of ideas would be disabled.

While I understand something is needed to prevent vandalism, editing of Ideas is very useful. In particular, soon after an idea is posted there are frequently questions in the comments and related ideas that are discussed that refine the Ideas in a very positive way.

There are a number of Ideas where I voted against them -- and in the comments explained why I voted against them -- and as a result the submitter edited-and-refined the Idea to make what was a problematic idea into a very positive one. The "include software disks" is one example - I think it's a great optional idea - but horrible for the environment if it's done by default(as the idea was originally posted where it said "always include").

By disallowing editing Ideas you would lose the benefits of having the community refine ideas and turning them from Good Ideas into Great Ideas.

Better solutions -- any one of:

  • Disable editing only after, say, 30-days after an Idea is posted.
  • Allow editing - but make Editing clear the vote scores for an Idea.
  • Allow editing as you do now - I only saw 1 instance of abuse of this feature and many instances of productive use of it.


[EDIT - As pointed out in the comments - there's another good solution -
  • Still allow edits but the edits need to be approved by moderators (dell_admins? trusted users?) before going into effect
Also, as pointed out in the comments - good thing I can still edit the Idea to get this good additional solution on the table.]

jervis961
08/23/07		 You forgot one. Edit gets submitted for moderation before posting. Good thing you can still edit your idea. :)
winoffice
10/15/07		 jmxz suggested: "Still allow edits but the edits need to be approved by moderators (dell_admins? trusted users?) before going into effect"

If only dell_admin1 gets to approve edits, then they never will be approved, which means that with the "trusted users," I agree.

You can have me as a trusted user. As a faithful customer of Dell, I am concerned with IdeaStorm and I know if the integrity of the site is preserved through an edit or not.

What I suggest: select trusted users based on whether their own edits -- if any -- have broken the integrity of the site or not. If not, then they can be trusted. I myself have never edited -- and never will edit -- my ideas so that it says the complete opposite of what it used to say, which means that I have never broken the integrity of the site. Perhaps they (the trusted users, not the edits) should have at least one popular idea (score 1,000 or higher) so that they would not only have good edits, but good ideas. That is only a suggestion or a recommendation, and it should not be a requirement.
jmxz
10/15/07		 Agree with winoffice.
I've edited many times - to correct spelling mistakes and to add clarifications to questions raised in the comments.
winoffice
10/15/07		 If I edit an idea, then it is because:
A. I thought of something that should be added, removed or revised, either because something is no longer recent and needs to be updated, or because I or someone else thought of a possible refinement for the idea.
B. Someone asked a question or requested a clarification in a comment, and I would like write the reply in the idea.
C. I detected a typographic error that needs to be corrected.

However, I never edit ideas so that they say the complete opposite of what they used to say.
cosh
11/26/07		 I edit ideas a lot too. I always find things in what I post that can be improved, or I need to update it to keep it current with the situation etc..

Not being able to edit ideas would be an outright nuisance.

I also don't think there is abuse of it, and you can tell if someone has edited an idea to change the topic since the original title is still visible in the URL.
jervis961
11/26/07		 Actually the title changes sometimes. When I put some ideas in for deletion and took them out again some of the URLs still show "deleted in protest".
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Idea originally posted 12/14/07
dell_admin1: Re-enable editing ideas and comments!

I today noticed that editing ideas and comments is now impossible. Why?

It is in this idea of mine that dell_admin1 expressed her will to do so.

She said that she decided to do so because of maliciously-intended edits.

But she must understand that most edits are NOT maliciously intended. jmxz, cosh, I and a few others noted noted that they and I have edited some of our ideas and comments, and here are the reasons:

A. I thought of something that should be added, removed or revised, either because something is no longer recent and needs to be updated, or because I or someone else thought of a possible refinement for the idea or comment.
B. Someone asked a question or requested a clarification in a comment, and I would like write the reply in the idea or comment.
C. I detected a typographic error that needs to be corrected.

dell_admin1 said in the idea mentioned above: "It isn't fair to other customers when a highly-voted idea is later edited by the poster to say something totally different."

She obviously does not want to understand that most of us never edit ideas so that they say the total opposite of what they used to say.

A better solution compared to eliminate editing ideas:

Allow editing but give those who already voted the options:

1. To keep their vote
2. To change their vote to the opposite
3. To withdraw their vote (remove current vote but do not change it to the opposite)

And for comments:

Still allow edits but the edits need to be approved by moderators (dell_admins? trusted users?) before going into effect.

This is a duplicate idea, but it is a good one, since the original is now lost in the middle of IdeaStorm and has not been given any reply by Dell whatsoever (which I believe to be extremely rude, considering the fact that the idea concerns a site of Dell itself), despite having a positive score.
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/14/07
By "or" in the title I meant "and".
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
I think people should be able to edit their ideas and comments. I thought this site was moderated by the users but instead they lock the place down more and more. A smarter move would be that if you edit an idea it is submitted for moderation. After the mod reads your changes and compares it to the original they can implement the edit or deny it and send you an email as to why. I have edited many of my ideas to add more OPTIONS, fix spelling, change a picture etc. Comments, I'm not so worried about.

P.S. I guess that now I can't go back and fix the wording on my tip section anymore that they like to link to for new users. When they implement changes I usually add or delete from the tip section to keep it up to date. Now it is going to explain how to edit ideas and comments when you can't do it. Also I added to it during a meltdown to see if they would even notice a few sarcastic comments (which went unnoticed) and now I can't even remove them. Oh well I guess they will keep linking to it anyway.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/68165/IdeaStorm_needs_a_tip_section< numbers 18 - 20. At least they were true as well as sarcastic. I would have added this to the previous comment but oops can't edit.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Oh there is another problem. The link bug that messes up your wording, sorry can't fix that one either now. Maybe they should have made the site work properly before taking away the edit functions. Can't wait until someone posts a large picture or html code that messes up the site formatting. It will take days for a mod to fix it.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Oh one last thought as I leave for work this morning. You can remove the delete requests category since now it is useless. How can we move an idea into the category without editing it? LOL well thought out plan this one was.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Editing is required.
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
They fix one thing and get another problem.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
well said Sugary Beary
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
@winoffice - I posted a conversation in the IdeaStorm forum thing last night, asking why had the edit button disappeared? They don't seem to have approved it yet, so it seems quite likely they've gone for the weekend. Given that it's now so close to the holidays, they may not give you an answer for ages.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Hi Cosh....
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
There should be a time limit on editing posts.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Yep well said aki
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
aikiwolfie: I do not agree that there should be a time limit. What if a person needs to edit the idea after that limit has passed? A better solution would be what I have suggested above (to allow people to change their vote after the edit). That way no time limit would be required, as those who have voted before the edit would have the option to change their vote.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
I said a post not an idea. But there should be a time limit on editing an idea as well. If you're not sure how to express your idea then don't post it. You're clearly not ready to share it. If you want other opinions on the idea or wish to develop the idea in collaboration with other people then use Dell Forums. Create a thread and get a discussion going. If you'd like a bit more privacy exchange e-mail addresses. Just send an e-mail to everybody in the group your working with.

That's actually how they used to collaborate when building Linux. Patches would be sent back and fourth via e-mail wrapped up in tar-balls. If an entire OS can be built this way so can an idea for idea storm. Further amendments can be made in posts like this. Of course that means Dell will have to start reading post and the general chit-chat will have to fall off the scale.

There is also a preview feature btw ;o)
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
I still do not agree with the time limit suggestion. I may initially be happy with my post and only after a few months find someting like a suggestion from somebody else that makes me want to edit my idea. And if I have to make a final edit on the idea before posting (as you suggested by "If you're not sure how to express your idea then don't post it"), I might take forever editing the idea.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
A time limit on edits is normal on discussion forums. I don't see a problem with it. It's an important tool for maintaining the integrity and continuety of threads. It would be nice if everybody was honest and it could be taken for granted that everybody was honest. But that's just not the reality of life or discussion forums.

I also don't have a problem with there being not edit facility at all. It's just more convenient to have some freedom to correct mistakes. If DA1 decides to keep edits completely locked down I'm happy with that.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Ohnos I made a spelling error! The world will end! Dive for cover!
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
She'll put it back next week and say it was a test I betcha.
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
@aikiwolfie: A time limit, even if normal, is not desirable for most of us (say sugarbear, who demoted the original - which suggested a time limit - while promoting my duplicate - which does not). I see many problems with it.

"It's an important tool for maintaining the integrity"

If I need to edit an idea to make it more recent but cannot due to the time limit, how can there be integrity?

Definition of integrity from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity: "the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished". If my idea diminishes in how recent it is but I cannot edit it to make it more recent, how can there be integrity?
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Perseverance is success huh?
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
I'm still laughing because this is just so ridiculous. They post that there will be an update to fix the paging so links are at the top and bottom of the idea.

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/12/13/38393.aspx

I don't see anything there explaining that they are taking away the editing. You would think they might mention such a huge change.
Now they need to make a few changes to the site because of this,

1. Remove the DELETE REQUESTS category because it is now useless.
2. Edit the moderator updates in relation to the Delete requests and editing ideas and comments.
3. Allow me to edit my Tip section idea they link to, so I can remove the sections about editing comments, editing ideas and the DELETE requests category.
4. Make a new moderator update to explain the changes.

Or they could use plan B.

Put the editing back and say "Oops sorry"
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Like I said in my tip section. Every time they fix something they cause more problems.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
I have an idea. DA1 should install a iBbitch filter to filter out all the iBitching about how crap the forum software is and then she won't have to fix anything. That way she won't make it worse!

I am phenomenal!
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/15/07
Jervis, Can I go ahead to convince myself that things like this will ever remain the same , inspite of the efforts?
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
It will eventually change Petzy. Either they will pick a better software or eventually shut down the site. Nothing is forever.

They really need to think about the consequences before making a move like this. You also notice that they do it close to the weekend so they can come back on Monday when the complaining is already over.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Jervis- ok fine I am just believing you and have some confidence, anyways thanks.
You mean to say that they like people to complain?
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
I don't want them to put it back. I'm having fun with the fact that I'm now the only person who can edit my own comments. Not that I ever abused it anyway.
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Really, I expect them to shut it down any time.
badblood
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Did I mention that I hate Dell now.
badblood
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
oh dear, I can't take that back.....merde alors
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
I doubt they'll be shutting IdeaStorm down any time in the immediate future. I'd say we've got about another 6 months on iBitching before that happens. Otherwise DA1 wouldn't be making all these changes and mergers.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Hi Ga Ga, How are you?....
badblood
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Fine thank you petzy. How are you?
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
I'm fine. I think you are busy.
badblood
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
A little. I'll be on holiday in a week and am looking forward to that. Are you you going away for Christmas?
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Nope, I am on my notice period and I am not eligible for leave. However, I requested them to schedule my off as Sunday & Monday so that I get a consecutive holiday for Xmas (Tuesday)
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07


dell_admin1
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
All - the ability to edit ideas and comments has been restored. This was a new feature added to the code on Friday afternoon, and I was told that it would not be the default setting. I'm sorry for the confusion and inconvenience. This change was not done intentionally by Dell. It is, however, an option that a future IdeaStorm manager may choose to use.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Hi DA1, U r up?
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
I thought U were switched off 4 holidays
dell_admin1
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Hi petzy. Not yet - but I will be soon!
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Hello, thanx DA1, the edit comments works up now....
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Are you leaving us DA1?
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
sugar beary where is DA1 going?
dell_admin1
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Hi sugarbear. I'm taking almost 2 weeks off for vacation over the holidays, but IdeaStorm will be in good hands as our Dell Community Forums team pitches in while I'm out. After the holidays, I'm hoping to transition a lot of the IdeaStorm site management to the Forums team, but I'll keep you all posted as I finalize the details. I'll do a short blog post before I go on vacation later this week, so everyone knows what's going on. :)
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Dont worry DA1, I may not be bothering you too much this comming New Year as well ok...is that fine?. I am sorry for all the botherings in 2007 plz
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Have a good Holiday and don`t even think about this site or Dell. Relax and enjoy your self.
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Petzy, you didn`t bother any one. In fact you gave valuable insight to the over seas tech support problems.
petzymathuram
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/16/07
Anyways thanks Sugary beary for all your comforting words...I am happy that I was helpful to "Dell" "atleast"
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
I was hoping it was a temporary thing. I am looking forward to the extra help on the site as it is sorely needed. I will say though that DA1 has done very well with the limits that have been placed on her by the software and her work at Dell. I hope this doesn't mean she will be gone for good and will be able to dedicate herself more to the behind the scenes work.
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
Doh!
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
I was really hoping I'd be the only one with the ability to edit comments. It's weird now, I have TWO buttons to edit them. La la la.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
LOL
cosh
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
Not gone just hiding.
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
I wasn't even given a warning before it left. It was the perfect opportunity for her to use her "there is no idea for Dell here" line. :D
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
OK? She deleted my idea but left the spam advertisements that I reported as abuse

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75623/DELL_INSPIRON_6000_Laptop_Battery...

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75622/7104_inch_Digital_Photo_Frame_Cou...

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75613/2_pack_Dell_1691p_battery4400mAh_...
jervis961
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
LOL the Dell community site still shows my blank idea as the most recent on IdeaStorm. How often do they have the RSS feeds update there?
sugarbear
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
Nice Christmas ornaments cosh.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
DA1 you can't leave us!!! It won't be the same! I'm going to go sit in the corner and cry until you change your mind!
davmcn
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
Have a good vacation...ciao till after New Year :)
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
I see that I now can finally edit my ideas and comments so...

Changed status to **IMPLEMENTED**.
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
Oh and this ability to edit ideas and comments concerns all of us of course so now IdeaStorm has just become a better place for all of us.
winoffice
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/17/07
I now edited the title to say "and" instead of "or" - see my first comment on this page.
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/18/07
I can't edit anything?
aikiwolfie
12/18/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/18/07
Oh wait i can :oD
petzymathuram
12/21/07		 Oh wait I can as well, naughty bear ;0D
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