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60

give money to help linux and gnu softwares

60 points posted to Linux, Software by siger 09/28/07

give money to help linux and gnu softwares

jmxz
09/28/07		 Disagree. There are better ways for Dell to help than giving money.

For the same money Dell can...
  1. They can (and do) hire Linux and F/OSS developers to contribute code to make Linux work well with their hardware.
  2. They can select vendors who have Linux Drivers and/or enough documentation (thanks ATI) that such drivers can be written.
  3. They can pass the savings on to Linux customers - who can in turn direct the funds to the projects they need most.
  4. They can increase their participation in Linux organizations to match that of their competitors.
benjesuit
09/28/07		 Agree with JMZX.
petzymathuram
09/28/07		 Is linux not an NGO?...then whats wrong in giving money?....
benjesuit
09/28/07		 Points 1 through 4 above.
petzymathuram
09/28/07		 sounds good....;)
pentox
09/28/07		 One of the problems with this will be in supporting the product. I unfortunately don't have any numbers to back this up, but if Dell promotes more Linux computers they will start getting into the hands of people who shouldn't be running Linux. People who barely can operate windows will probably mess up their computers even more if they are running linux. Savings might be passed on to linux customers who should use it, I agree. But that will come at the cost of Dell's financials, and thereby decrease their productivity. Considering how competitive their pricing is I don't think that many linux users are buying their pcs from another company and would switch to dell if they could get it with a specific distro (it looks like Dell's distro of choice is Ubuntu).
petzymathuram
09/28/07		 "but if Dell promotes more Linux computers they will start getting into the hands of people who shouldn't be running Linux"
this point looks quite sensible
Linux is spreading like a forest fire. The youth youngsters are much interested in Linux over here, if encouraged, Linux will hit higher heights.
pentox
09/28/07		 I think you took my point wrong. There are users out there who can barely run their computers. I have been on the support lines when you get the call from the customer who doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you think walking someone through a printer setup wizard is hard, imagine trying to instruct them on how to log into the console switch to root and change the permission on a file. You can't deny that there are people who are better off not getting to that level of their computer. I don't deny that there is a growing population of people interested in Linux, I don't deny that there is a growing population of tech savvy people in the world. Those are the people who should have linux, but it should not come at the cost of their skills with an operating system that encompasses the vast majority of market share. Dell has no reason to fund people to develop another operating system. Dell has a pretty good spot with MSFT. If the times do change, Dell will adapt. There is no reason in my opinion for them to shell out for themselves to lose that revenue.
petzymathuram
09/29/07		 Hi Pentox my message 2 U was though there is a worrying point that linux may end up in the hands of less knowledge people, it will be balanced in a very short time by fast learners, say for eg if Linux opens up a new development center/ projects, people in no time will migrate to the Linux abandoning Microsoft......Hence need not worry. ...;)
petzymathuram
09/29/07		 I agree with your points tho......;)
winoffice
10/01/07		 So my money spent on Windows goes to help Linux???????? Never!!!!!!!!
petzymathuram
10/01/07		 your money win office?
winoffice
10/01/07		 Well, it was originally my money. Let us assume that I spent it to buy a copy of Windows, either by itself or with a PC, from Dell. And then Dell gives away that money to help Linux???? I am completely against that!!!!
pentox
10/01/07		 I agree with winoffice here. What might be a better solution to this is how about of the portion of the price from all the Ubuntu systems sold. Therefore any cost changes are reflected upon the Ubuntu purchasers. Leave windows buyers be. Although don't complain if the pricing is different because of that.
winoffice
10/01/07		 I am quite glad that someone agrees with me here. After all, it is unfair that the money a person who bought a copy of Windows goes to help Linux.
jmxz
10/01/07		 @winoffice:
Even I agree with you here. Even among Linux users it's unlikely that Dell could direct donations towards projects that would please all Linux users.
petzymathuram
10/02/07		 Once a corporate has received money or made money with Windows and now if it sees that Linux Les with bugs) is the need of the hour...I feel that there is no harm for a corporate to switch to a good cause if given an opportunity. Its juzz the term "Adaptability to technology according to the latest need and trend" is what the corporate had followed here. "Be happy that Dell is directing your money or donating your money or utilizing your money for a good cause"
jmxz
10/02/07		 And I want to add that philosophically it seems odd to pay more than the cost of a blank CD for already-written-software. If Dell wants to pay people to improve F/OSS (read - hire developers, either as employees or as contractors to fix specific things they need fixed for it to work on Dell's) - I'm all for it. But giving money away for software that already exists sounds like a waste of money to me.
petzymathuram
10/02/07		 I'm sorry that I have promoted it, but later after realizing your substantiation, I've agreed to it. But even to perform the actions that you have listed above needs utilization of funds right?.....thats what I need to tell you...No harm in diverting your fiunds is it not?...;)
JMXZ now whats your opinion?....;)
jmxz
10/02/07		 @petzymathuram: "JMXZ now whats your opinion?"

Just my personal opinion - but if you want me to summarize it:

* Utilization of funds to make a better product IMHO is good - like hiring people to make specific improvements Dell needs.

* Giving away cash (beyond duplication/distribution costs) for pre-existing software is a waste of money.

* Giving away undirected cash to F/OSS projects - which is what this posting sounded like - isn't necessarily bad; but it's probably not the best use of the funds because (at best) it goes through one more middleman (the organization) and at worst gets spent in was that don't solve any real problems that need solving.

Just my opinion, tho.
petzymathuram
10/02/07		 of course you are free to express your opinion. Quoting your statement ..." it goes through one more middleman (the organization)"....I think you can believe Dell Organization...
"My personal opinion".....I think now Dell would have got a clear picture of how to tide over the possible evil of "other middlemen", I think you will be safe with Dell, if you deal with it directly.....;)
JMXZ, I think you can consider my opinion as well, though I have imbibed what your concerns are.......;)
I request you to have a second opinion, considering my points for Dell...;)
benjesuit
10/02/07		 What's stopping Linux software developers from making a product for sale instead of seeking handouts? If the product is worth buying, it's worth selling.

Besides, there's nothing in it for Dell to simply be altruistically inclined to give money away to some lazy a$$ socialists who want to code software for the benefit of some idealistic crusade. If you code software that addresses a need of the computing public, you will be rewarded for doing so.

Now if you want Dell to be a commercial distributor of Open Source software for Linux, that's another thing.
pentox
10/02/07		 The way I see it is this, Dell is a public company. They have a responsibility to their shareholders, and to their shareholders alone. Any inferred responsibility to their customer is because of a desire to keep customers happy and enjoy their products. BUT it does not warrant a disproportionate desire to keep their customers happy. Personally, I would love it if dell were to give 100 dollars to everyone who ever bought a computer, but they're not going to do that because even though it would make all of their customers happier, it is not financially logical. Unless Linux users start making a significant portion of the sales imo 25% or more, this isn't really something worth discussion. Dell already created the open source product lines which cut into their revenues (through the loss of further microsoft sales). I think to really push on this matter is like a child who was just given a candy bar demanding two.
jmxz
10/02/07		 @benjesuit: "What's stopping Linux software developers from making a product for sale instead of seeking handouts? "

Nothing. But looking at it from the software buyer's side I'd want to to spend the same money paying for improvements (or support, marketing help, etc) rather than for the pre-existing package for GPL'd software.

I *like* the way Dell currently supports F/OSS development - by hiring people to do needed work. What bugs me is how hard it is for their customers to get the results of these projects.
benjesuit
10/02/07		 Agreed.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Idea originally posted 11/08/07
Dell needs to donate money to Ubuntu

Dell should Donate a % of their profits from Ubuntu to Linux or the guys who design Ubuntu, because its nice for them to be selling it free.
benjesuit
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/08/07
Or Canonical can start selling more services and products. They do seem to be doing OK with the support services they sell.
If anything, Dell could sell co-branded products like those found in the Ubuntu store on Canonical's website.

In any event, Linux is not a cause, it's an OS. And it's worth paying for, IMO.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/08/07
I think of it as a cause. Trust me.Do you have Linux?
benjesuit
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/08/07
Yep. I use it on one of my laptops at home. Ubuntu 6.10. Haven't gotten around to updating to 7.04. But Fiesty works great.

What's the cause, BTW? Even AAPL is smart enough to realize that if it's worth buying, it's worth selling. And what is more, they bundle their OS with their hardware.
premcv
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Agree with you, benje! I have never seen Linux as a cause but a definite OS competitor. So, the best way would be to partner with Canonical to start selling their services.

Also on a hind-sight, what would happen, if Dell proposed to buy Canonical? Would it make a good move? Much like how Apple bought out NeXT? Just thinking out-of-box here...
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
It would definitely be out of the box. I dont know how the hard-core Ubuntu Community would fare.... I wouldn't mind because I don't have Ubuntu. Sure, its on a Live-Cd but still.

If that happened, Dell would become another Apple, if they ever managed to get their soul back from M$.
premcv
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
That's exactly what I thought, to get their soul back!

But if Dell continues to be dearer to the Ubuntu community, maybe, just maybe they wouldn't mind.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Yeah. before Dell buys out Ubuntu First, they need to start selling GOOD computers with it. Ubuntu is a powerful OS. (so is opensuse) Just give it the opportunity.
premcv
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Yes, that I believe will happen shortly (selling GOOD computers with Ubuntu). And just an opportunity is what Ubuntu/Canonical needs here!
ian.chamberlain
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Why should any commercial company contribute money? If people donate their time and work to "free" software they can't expect anything back. If you want to get paid you write commerical software. That's how it works.
sonstone
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Not to mention the fact that ubuntu is primarily taking other peoples code and packaging/marketing it better than some others. Isn't it built on Debian or Suse? Regardless, following this logic wouldn't dell need to donate to every module packaged with ubuntu.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
the guys who make the operating system have needs, you know. Most of the core team members have kids. Let me tell you that I dont think they get paid much. It takes a lot to develop a free Operating system.

All linux os's are linux under the hood, no matter what name they slap on it. The main differences are the kernels, support, and GUI.
winoffice
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
Duplicate of siger's idea "give money to help linux and gnu softwares" -- idea 74173
winoffice
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
So my money spent on Windows goes to help Ubuntu???????????????? Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
7.04? We're upto 7.10 now! 8.04 is due in April.

But anyway. About the idea. Dell does contribute to Ubuntu by helping to produce drivers so that Ubuntu works first time. Dell also released the app it used to respin the Ubuntu installation disc as an open source project when they had to produce a new driver sharpish.

I'd love to see Ubuntu memorabilia in Dells on-line store. That can only help. Of course the best thing Dell could do for Ubuntu is treat it just like another OS option instead of the embarrassing cousin shoved in the corner. Put it on the OS list and let people choose Ubuntu with any compatible PC. Advertise Ubuntu PCs the same way they advertise Windows PCs.
dell_admin1
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/09/07
@dwood - this appears to be very similar to this idea: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/74173. Ok to merge it into the original idea?
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
It does seem almost exactly the same. How does merging affect the votes? Do the votes from the new thread decay faster to match the old thread or do they keep their power and boost the old thread? Not complaining, just curious :o)
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Its fine.

I meant: a % of the profit Dell makes from selling Ubuntu computers gets sent to the Ubuntu/Linux guys.
benjesuit
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Canonical, as far as I know, is a for-profit company. You can't "donate" to a company. However, you can enter into licensing, distrubution, and co-branding deals.

I'm sure there's an arrangement between Dell and Canonical that is mutally beneficial with regards to sales of PC with Ubuntu pre-installed that goes beyond canonical's support services.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
i dont know.... Dell admin, do you know anything about the deal between Dell and Novell for selling the Ubuntu computers?
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Novell? I thought the deal with Novell was for the SuSE Enterprise options. I don't think Novell has anything to do with Ubuntu. Do they? Canonical are the Ubuntu sponsors so far as I know.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
es, actually. Novell supplied the source of the Operating System Ubuntu first came out on. It is slowly leaving that first base but remains largely the same.

Novell has a lot more to do with Ubuntu than most people ever realise....
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Interesting. So SuSE is Debian based? Or did Ubuntu switch to a Debian base? Maybe Novell should dump openSuSE and point Joe Public to Ubuntu then?

Personally I think Novell take a lot of flak for no good reason.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Actually, Opensuse has been here for much, much longer than Ubuntu. it should be Novell pointing the user to whichever distro that will fit them. I personally like opensuse better than Ubuntu out-of the-live-cd.
if Novell followed your advice opensuse and Ubuntu would literally trade places, not changing anything at all really except what they support. i like the way each distro is supported in themselves because theres no reason for Novell to switch supported operating systems. Man, we need a forum so we can veer off topic without violating TOU.
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Oh I know opensuse has been around longer. I used to use it. They just seem to be targeting the same user base. I always got the impression opensuse was aimed at home users while the enterprise version was aimed squarely at businesses. opensuse always seemed a bit rough and ready to me where Ubuntu is a bit more pollished.

I do like the installer from opensuse though. Especially for disaster recovery. It's an area Ubuntu still falls short. To the novice it's not immediately clear how to use the live CD to revive a broken system.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
I dont know how this became a comparing ot the two operating sytems but here goes:

As reading, ubunut is built off of Debian (predating 1995)
Opensuse is built off of SUSE (also predating 1995)
The two, Debian and SUSE are very similar still,
but "the system administration of the two systems does differ and is probably the largest differentiator. One can argue that YAST, the "Yet Another System Tool" provided in SUSE is one of the richest system management tools, but it is also getting long in the tooth and in need of modernization or maybe even a rewrite. It is a very good tool, but it can be cumbersome at times."
from: here
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
hopefully you saw this post aki, but I edited it.
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
Done.
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/10/07
sweet.
premcv
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/12/07
So a merge will happen soon?
dwood
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/12/07
if ever.
dell_admin1
11/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 11/12/07
was just waiting on the discussion to make sure the merge was relevant. Based on dwoods comment just now, I'd say it's a go.
benjesuit
11/12/07		 It's a tough crowd to please isn't it Dell_admin1?
dwood
11/12/07		 I know. im pretty hard to please (I like my brownies)
aikiwolfie
11/12/07		 :oD admin1 does a great job!
dwood
11/12/07		 yep
 
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