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90

Offer openSUSE DVD's with all Dell Desktops/Laptops

90 points posted to Dell, Linux, Desktops and Laptops by phubert 10/05/07

openSUSE 10.3 is now available.

Dell partners with Novell.

openSUSE offers a bridge between Windows and Linux.

It's popular and well-supported.

On the order page, indicate what options are NOT compatible (no reliable drivers) with Linux!

phubert
10/05/07		 Analysis -- On Oct. 4, Novell released openSUSE 10.3, the newest version of its popular community Linux distribution. This version of openSUSE includes a flexible Linux-Windows dual-boot configuration, improved user interface, Microsoft Office file compatibility with the latest OpenOffice.org office productivity suite and enhanced multimedia support.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9522087546.html
aikiwolfie
10/09/07		 Open SUSE sucks. I tried it for a while and gave up. RPM hell.
phubert
10/10/07		 What was the last version you tried? Know if there's been any improvement since then???
aikiwolfie
10/10/07		 10.2 I think. I even tried the Enterprise version that was doing the rounds as a free trial for a bit. Don't get me wrong SuSE is a solid Linux distro. It's just not by any stretch of the imagination intended for the home desktop. It has a long long way to go before it can match Ubuntu for ease of use. Except in one area. Disaster recovery. The SuSE installer is the best I've seen. If we could have that on Ubuntu life would be simpler.
phubert
10/10/07		 Well, I did say "offer" as in "option" ... but these 'suggestions' are more for discussion than they are requests OF Dell...
mkmaster78
10/11/07		 @aikiwolfie Ubuntu has ease of use? It's a huge pain in the rear. I install the thing, it says it has gcc, I go to compile something, and the configure script says the compiler cannot create executables. Excuse me, isn't that the whole purpose of a compiler? Turns out you have to apt-get another package just so gcc can compile, and that's ease of use? And this is just one example. Sorry bout the rant, but everyone goes on and on about (K)Ubuntu and its "ease of use." It's got some user friendly features, but what good are those when the OS is broken from the get go, is a huge pain to customize, and has basically no configuration options, especially in the installer.
phubert
10/11/07		 It depends on the user, doesn't it? If you NEVER compile anything, you won't have that problem with Ubuntu. If you're a developer, is Ubuntu the distro you would choose? I don't know that Canonical set out to make Ubuntu 'all things to all people' ... usually that DOESN'T work, anyway! And, isn't that why we see different distros preferred by different users?
mkmaster78
10/11/07		 @phubert that was just one thing, as I mentioned. Trust me the list goes on, and on, and on, etc.
phubert
10/11/07		 Still, mkmaster78, there are those who LIKE Ubuntu and are entirely happy with it.

But, I'm glad you are speaking up as well. I would hope no one considers any platform the actual 'end-all, be-all' ... it simply isn't the case.

Have you raised your issues to Canonical? After all, sometimes companies really DO listen and respond. And, as I pointed out in Petzy's new thread, ONE reason we don't see solutions is that those who could provide them haven't seen the PROBLEM. In other cases, it's the old 'squeaky wheel' issue... either way, speaking up to the right people is probably the best way to get results when you aren't in a position to provide the solution yourself.
mkmaster78
10/11/07		 @phubert Appreciate the ideas, but Canonical wouldn't listen to me if I talked with them, as I am fairly against the entire scheme and implementation plan they've set out. I understand they're trying to create a Windows-like Linux, insofar as you just install and go, but I think they go about it in entirely the wrong way. Oh well, just one man's gripe I suppose.
phubert
10/11/07		 But, don't you think that functionality issues might be addressed?
aikiwolfie
10/11/07		 Which part of the Ubuntu OS is broken? Linux runs just fine without GCC so it's not an integral part of the OS. It's a package to be installed if needed.

Ubuntu might not come with all the packages you want but that doesn't mean it's broken. Maybe if Ubuntu doesn't have what you're looking for then it's not the right distro for you. Getting SuSE compatible RPMs can be a nightmare. Does that mean SuSE is broken?

Ubuntu is after all squarely aimed at people who don't get all the nonsense about compiling your own stuff and writing your own software. I by no stretch of the imagination ever claimed Ubuntu was perfect. Personally I've stuck with the standard packages so far. When I advance further I'll let you know. Right now I'm happy with what I've got.
phubert
10/11/07		 And, aikiwolfie, you illustrate my point perfectly! Thanks!
mkmaster78
10/11/07		 @aikiwolfie I only used GCC as an example, not aas its one and only flaw. As for being broken, lets see, where to start: driver support sucks (it has to have one of the smallest driver caches I've ever seen in a linux distro), it's ungainly features make customization difficult and confusing, especially for new users (I've had to deal with several people on this one, I always point them to openSuSE as its Yast control center is comparable to Windows control panel, only with more features), it's difficult to find new packages, manage existing ones, or manage repositories (another issue I've had to help people with, even advanced Linux users who TAUGHT ME how to use Linux), shall I go on?

@phubert It's not so much about functionality, it's about usability more. Ubuntu's lack of, well, anything puts it just above Slackware as one of the worst, in my opinion of course, Linux distros available. (Not trying to start a flame war here, these are, of course, mostly opinion based)

I realize many people like Ubuntu, and I've given it every shot I'm going to, through several versions, and I have to say that NONE of my production systems will EVER have Ubuntu or Kubuntu on them.
aikiwolfie
10/11/07		 It's difficult to find new packages? Difficult to manage repositories? It couldn't be easier. Infact it's easier than openSuSE. Go to System > Administration > Software Sources. Just add the APT line and your done. Which isn't actually all that different from SuSE. Except in SuSE it takes more clicks of the mouse to get there.

Ubuntu also has an awesome community page that tells people how to do all the basics and gives them the exact commands to use. How much more hand holding should Ubuntu offer? They even point you in the direction of Medibuntu for commercial DVD support.

All of the common customisation are handled through the System > Preferences menu. I don't know who would find that hard. What type of customisation are you talking about? Themes are a doddle and a basic Compiz set-up is there and ready to go. Just click System > Preferences > Desktop Effects. If you need to install a third party driver for the graphics card, Ubuntu does it automatically.

Synaptic is also easy enough to use. Everything is categorised and there's a search function. All you do is select the package you want. Dependencies are taken care of automatically. And if you like the command line APT is still there.
aikiwolfie
10/11/07		 I also forgot to mention there is an Add/Remove option in the Applications menu as well for adding and removing software.
phubert
10/11/07		 Does it work any better than the Add/Remove under Windows?
NOW I'll display my total ignorance: is there ANYTHING under Linux that is in any way comparable to the Windows Registry???
And, (anticipating the answer) is there anything bad about that?
aikiwolfie
10/11/07		 Yes. It doesn't take half an hour to "populate" the list.

It's actually a simplified view of what you'd see if you were to use Synaptic. Rather than seeing all the individual packages and libraries you just get to see the category's and the application name. There's also a description of every application listed and a search function. It's basically everything you need to manage the applications installed on your system.

You mean a centralised database that holds all your user settings, hardware settings and software licenses etc. No. Linux uses good old simple text files. Some software titles use XML based files. But they're just text files with XML mark-up. The down side to the Windows registry is it's a bad idea to have both hardware, software and user settings all in the one place. It's big, bloated, cumbersome and a nightmare to edit.

The closest to the Windows way of doing things is the /etc or /var directories where a lot of the config files are kept. So everything's still pretty much in the one place. It's just compartmentalised better. It's a bit like the INI file method of storing settings. Which incidentally is still in use in XP and probably Vista too.

The big advantage is that one badly written software title can't trash the entire registry. Because there isn't one.
phubert
10/11/07		 For all of us who thought Dell was too slow, this discussion ALSO provides an excellent illustration of why Dell could not simply slam in a Linux offering on their machines.

Estimating or attempting to measure potential demand for any given distro clearly isn't going to be an exact science, not to mention the potential success of such an offering once sales begin to roll out.
aikiwolfie
10/11/07		 I do agree to an extent. I've always said on Idea Storm people need to be patient when it comes to Linux roll-out. But in all honesty I think it could actually go just a bit faster.

A lot of the contributors to idea storm and particuarly the ones that want Linux are savvy users. They know PCs, how they work, how to use them and how to go about figureing out and learning new things. Dell could have taken 2 steps that would have speeded up the uptake of Linux.

Step 1: Offer every single Dell PC without exception as a bare system. Meaning no OS at all. Linux is downloadable for free! Savvy user can easily install it them selves. This gives Dell a major advantage for step 2 because it gives them a fountain of real world knowledge of how well Linux runs on their systems and even how to fix or work around problems.

Step 2: Produce open source drivers for Dell hardware. If it's open source the community will get involved. They will take it apart, rebuild it and make it work. Dell will get a taste for which Linux communities are using their hardware because those communities will be doing development for Dell, Dell customers and them selves. All free of charge!!!
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