Allow Third Party Power Adapters

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Allow Third Party Power Adapters

0 points posted to Accessories (Keyboards, etc.), Laptop Power by zcrane 11/12/07

Currently Dell won’t allow a user to charge their batteries with a third party charger, such as a Targus Universal Power Adapter. Dell has some sort of a power adapter identifier that will only allow you to *power* the notebook, but not *charge* the batteries with the said charger.

This is a horrible case of forcing customers into purchasing the Dell branded power adapter, even if a different company produces one that fits the user's needs better. This is like saying only a Dell branded mouse will work with a Dell notebook... ridiculous!

Dell, this needs to be changed, and changed soon.

jorge 11/12/07	I guess you've never visited a radio shack store lately have you?
zcrane 11/12/07	jorge... can you further explain?
jorge 11/12/07	* ALL READY OFFERED * * IMPLEMENTED BY 3RD PARTY MANUFACTURES *
zcrane 11/12/07	Huh?
zcrane 11/12/07	jorge... this comes from my purchase of a Targus Universal power adapter. After purchase, I plug it in only to find out that it will not charge my batteries.
jorge 11/12/07	You purchased the wrong wattage power supply. Take it back for an exchange, most likely will have to pay a bit more for more power.
zcrane 11/12/07	jorge... I purchased the universal 100W adapter. I dont think it is a matter or wattage, as it is the most powerful one they offer
jorge 11/12/07	Then the power adapter must not have the correct output voltage/current requirements for you laptop, or worse its actually not functioning properly. Has the 3rd Party power adapter been tested for to see if its actually outputing the correct voltage/current? I know you just bought it but sometimes things just don't work right and an exchange is needed.
zcrane 11/12/07	I contacted Targus and they said that Dell will not allow third parties to develop adapters that charge the batteries, only power the laptop. Maybe they meant that it was specific to my model (Latitude D830), but that is not what they said over the phone. The adapter powers the notebook just fine, but I get a message from Dell QuickSet saying the batteries will not be charged because it cannot recognize the adapter.
jorge 11/12/07	Ok, I fully understand now, there must be somebody who's circumvented this already, have you looked on line for any possible hack/solution? Crazy Dell, has some kind of power supply identifier or something to prevent 3rd parties to charge a stinking battery! Imagine if you're dies and you're not in a location to just pick one up! The madness! You need to add that if a Dell Power supply isn't used you can't charge the batteries (you're not descriptive enough in your current text) or you'll end up with a bricked laptop (as in to be used without a power supply) if you don't have a Dell specific PS! I'll change my Status.
jorge 11/12/07	* IDEA UN-CLEAR ENOUGH * * DO IT NOW DELL *
zcrane 11/12/07	Thanks jorge. Sorry the idea was poorly worded. Hopefully the new text will be better. Not doing too well with -10 though haha.
zcrane 11/12/07	jorge... by the way, I have spend a little time looking online, but have come up with nothing.
sugarbear 11/12/07	It makes more sence to me now with the explanation.
mdburkey 11/12/07	This is common across the entire Dell laptop product line -- 3rd party adapters do not charge the batteries because they cannot communicate with the laptop to inform them of the charger type. It is NOT strictly a current/wattage issue -- there is additional signaling information present on the center pin of the Dell chargers. It is not uncommon for even Dell's own chargers to not be able to charge the batteries if they become damaged -- yet still power the laptop just fine. There are VERY good reasons behind this having to do with both charge rate on the batteries and how Dell Latitude docking stations recognize the 90W AC Adapter vs the 65W AC Adapter (the 65W unit doesn't have enough current to run both the dock and laptop properly). The bigger issue though is for the laptop to know the proper adapter type to determine the proper charge rate for the battery -- i.e. the Dell QuickCharge feature only works with the 90W adapter. The BIGGEST issue though is one of product liability. Basically, Dell wants to be SURE the current and voltage regulation from the adapter are proper before attempting to charge the battery -- for good reason. Improperly charged Li-Ion batteries can be rather explosive to say the least! Dell's own chargers can be had for $35 used from several places and from $20/ea off Fleabay, so what's the big deal anyway?
zcrane 11/13/07	I'm sorry guys, but I just don't see why you don't think this is a good idea. mdburkey, you have good points, but this is nothing that a third party manufacturer wouldn't take into consideration when developing their power adapter. Dell's own charger is decent, but there are other models with better features like the Targus AC/DC Universal Power Adapter that can be used in a home, car, or airplane. Plus, it is capable of charging other devices simultaneously (mp3 player, cell phone, hard drive, etc.) Dell should at least give it's customers the option of using one of these chargers. Those of you that voted this down and failed to comment, what are your thoughts?
dazzla Feb 18	If I can use something as complex as 3rd party memory, or any other kind of device I connect to my laptop then why not something as simple as a power supply. Dell just needs to open up to the 3rd parties to tell them how to identify their power supplies.
mdburkey Feb 26	@dazzla -- Memory, USB devices, etc. are "simple" devices as far as PC's go, not complex. A power supply is actually a LOT more complex. Generally speaking, most EE's consider digital electronics to be understandable and easy, yet consider analog electronics to be almost "black magic". That said, the true issue is one of liability! If you put a third party memory module, hard drive, dvd drive, etc. into a laptop and it dies or causes problems, about the worst thing that happens is data corruption or a dead laptop. If you put an improperly regulated power supply onto a laptop and then attempt to charge the battery and get just the wrong surge at the wrong time, you can easily overvoltage a Li-Ion cell and start a catastrophic breakdown -- in essence, it may easily catch fire or EXPLODE. From a liability perspective, a third party power adapter is much more of a problem than a third party battery. If a third party battery explodes, it is easy to detect, easy to point out, and say "not my problem" simply by examining the battery that actually exploded! If a real Dell battery were to explode following connection to a bad third party power supply, it could be very difficult to prove what power supply was actually connected at the time of the problem. In essence, you've got a liability nightmare. Dell is simply doing the smart thing on this -- both to cover their own rears and protect the public.
dazzla Mar 13	@mdburkey-- Sorry I still don't buy it. EE's (I assume you mean Electronics/Electrical Engineers) have for many years developed very complex analogue and digital systems. All depends on their discipline (Analogue/Digital) as to what they understand fully. Personally mine was digital although I did have to start with a foundation in both. Memory, CPU's and the digital electronics inside devices such as those using USB all have very specific analogue power requirements as well as thermal tolerances, etc. I accept that they may be tighter for the Li-ion batteries and the result of getting it wrong can be more dramatic but this is certainly not rocket science. The market is full of devices using Li-ion batteries and also standard replacement Li-ion batteries with an equally large number of chargers to go with them. Many people at many manufactures are managing to get their head around the requirements. Liability can be easily handled as it is always. "If you don't use our branded X we cannot be held responsible for anything that may go wrong including explosion". Things normally go wrong due to a combination of variables. Yes Dell is trying to cover themselves but they are also making a pretty penny on power supplies.
mdburkey Mar 14	@ dazzla: "Liability can be easily handled as it is always. "If you don't use our branded X we cannot be held responsible for anything that may go wrong including explosion". Things normally go wrong due to a combination of variables." The issue is that it is very easy to prove where the problem lies if third party/defective battery explodes. If an original OEM battery explodes when used with a third party/defective power supply, it's a lot harder to prove who is at fault -- especially as the supply could easily be swapped by the end user AFTER the accident making it look like an original charger was at fault.
kaizanne May 14	I'm for 3rd party products who are up to the mark, as it's unfair to penalize reliable & responsible manufacturers due to the negligence of some (many). Perhaps Dell could have similar MFD/WWD (Made for Dell/Works With Dell) like Apple's MFi/WWi (Made for iPod/Work With iPhone). Dell would qualify these manufacturers-> release specification-> conduct approbation on 3rd party products-> give or reject MFD/WWD certification.

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